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2013 Engine Rattle and Knock

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by Cosmo Tigato, May 9, 2024.

  1. Cosmo Tigato

    Cosmo Tigato Active Member

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    Here we go again? Maybe....

    This 2013 Prius with 148,000 is a Pain!

    Toyota Dealer told the Customer the Head gasket was bad.
    So, after the head gasket was replaced, the engine was knocking and rattling like crazy
    Then was told the engine was bad and replaced the Engine with a JDM. WOW!!!
    [JDM] came with intake and exhaust manifolds also the throttle body and EGR.
    Guess what???
    Same Knocking and Rattling. Crazy huh?
    Then the diagnoses was Engine Computer.
    And you guessed it.
    Same Rattle and knocking.
    When a sensor is disconnected the car runs fine for 45 seconds then the rattle/knock resumes
    and it won't charge the batteries low nor high volt.

    What other expensive parts can be thrown at this thing.

    Now I got my hands on it and have no idea where to start because there are NO CODES.!!??!?!
    All 3 Grounds are connected to the Engine.

    What a story.
    Help me Obi-Wan!!!
    I feel sorry for this Princess
     
  2. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    Mine does similar and it charges the battery and regen breaking is working and all of that It just does this rattling business and it seems to be related to the torque plate flywheel assembly on the back of the motor like maybe a bolt wasn't tightened down and now it's moved enough and when the engine and tranny don't mesh like they're supposed to the head of the bolt is able to smack against the housing or a spring in the torque plate is knocked itself loose something I don't know what and at this point don't really care It is really weird I haven't tried blocking off the EGR but I replaced with a new valve brand new so now I have two used valves that came on my old engines that look like they're working and they seal up water doesn't really pour through them like on the YouTube videos. So it's just a chalk it up to a loss because you can't go anywhere with it everyone else is going to do the same things I've already done and who knows.
     
  3. Cosmo Tigato

    Cosmo Tigato Active Member

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    Can't be
    The Engine was swapped.
     
  4. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    Can't be what engine will swapped engine was swapped Not all the ancillary components I don't imagine. Because the engine is swapped I don't know which torque plate which flywheel and all of that is being used the one from the engine that you got from wherever or the one that was in your car when it was taken out there is a difference The person doing the swap still has to tighten up bolts and so on and so forth to make sure everything is legit to stay together and go down the road so I don't know what you're can't engine was swapped really means I do see that you did have an engine swap but that doesn't usually mean every single component gets replaced from one to the other It's a toss-up a crap shoot were you there did you do the swap yourself so I'm not sure what you're telling me It can't happen because the whole engine was swapped okay then.
     
  5. Cosmo Tigato

    Cosmo Tigato Active Member

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    What are you talking about???
    You are typing gibberish.
    Torque plate flywheel? Do you mean the Clutch Damper?
    ancillary components?

    It is behaving the same with separate engines.

    It is a complete Engine from Japan [JDM]
    [It comes with Damper, Manifolds, TB, WP, Plugs, Coils, Sensors, etc...]

    It is not a bolt that is rattling around.

    Can any knowledgeable people please help with this?
     
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  6. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Does it matter which one? This seems like an important detail...
     
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  7. Cosmo Tigato

    Cosmo Tigato Active Member

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    Any sensor. The EGR plug, The Purge Valve plug, the MAF sensor plug, you name it.
    Thanks for the reply
     
  8. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Pretty weird symptom.

    I'm curious if there's any correlation between running condition and open loop/closed loop status.

    What are you using to get data from the car?
     
  9. Cosmo Tigato

    Cosmo Tigato Active Member

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    Can't get it to warm up enough.
    It shuts off because it's not charging the hybrid battery
    So, I think it wont show codes because it wont run long enough.
    I am using xtool d7. Live data is no help.
    In special functions I can select "All Cylinder fuel cutoff" and it runs better
    Could the Fuel pump be under delivering?
    Thanks for the reply
     
  10. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Is this engine really actually starting?

    When a Prius starts its engine, it cranks at a much higher RPM than you'd see in a regular car. It is allowed to crank for a long time, too.

    Sometimes this fakes people out, they think the engine was running when in fact it was just being spun fast by the motor-generators in an attempt to start.

    So I'm wondering if you're seeing this car attempt to start engine, but then the engine runs poorly (we still don't know why) and eventually stalls. (without setting P3191 or similar error)

    Does anything change if you give starting fluid or propane to the air intake during one of these start/run cycles?

    There might be something to the fuel pump thought, but I'm putting my own bet on fuel contamination (or even simple exhaustion) for right now.
     
  11. Cosmo Tigato

    Cosmo Tigato Active Member

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    Exhaust is coming out the tailpipe. No restrictions, but it sounds like misfire from the pipe.
    Coils pulled, coils swapped around, plugs checked, noid lights on injector connectors, injectors swapped around.
    It goes into gear and moves and accelerates.
    But, since it won't charge the HV Batt, it shuts off the car to protect itself.
    I have extra HV Batt assembly's but it will just drain those too.

    Same symptoms from two separate Engines? and Separate ECM's?

    What could be the root cause for this GREMLIN hiding in the car?
    Sensor Ground fault? [that corrects itself after 45 second from being unplugged] Huh Weird
    Fault in the Engine Harness from the head gasket job? [an Active code would instantly set a hard fault]
    Fuel Delivery [on the xTool D7 when you select All Cylinder fuel cutoff, the engine smooths out, except it still won't charge the HV.]

    Really strange.

    And thanks for the reply
     
  12. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Was this one set of injectors swapped between the two engines, or did the replacement come with its own?
     
  13. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    I have the exact same issue. I know the person that did the swap all of that nonsense still could be something that's why I haven't pulled the transmission just yet but everything else has been replaced EGR all of that coolers got a few of them all cleaned look brand new inside etc no codes nothing. Then one day out of nowhere misfire codes for every cylinder registering in tech changed out my 2-year-old coils for a set of new all of the misfire codes gone even with the misfires happening the rattle wasn't as bad as with the engine with the bad head gasket doesn't seem like it would be an electronics or a computer problem and I should have a code if that's the case none this is a legitimate working copy of the Toyota software and the real xhorse cable
     
  14. Cosmo Tigato

    Cosmo Tigato Active Member

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    The injectors came with the replacement JDM engine.
    Nothing was moved from one to the other.

    If it was low fuel pressure, why would a fuel cutoff make it better?
    Could the computer be commanding the wrong A/F mix on both ECU's
    not trigger a O2 sensor?
    And the HV batt still not charging?

    So Odd

    Thanks for the reply
     
  15. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    Mine was a JDM engine too I've not seen any JDM engines where people had good success using the throttle body but that's just here.
     
  16. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    I replaced with a set of injectors thinking similar didn't make a bit of difference at all change right here on the spot EGR valve same thing made a little bit of difference it seems like but in the live data and all that everything looks about the same when it's rattling and I'm looking at the live data nothing seems to be amiss literally.
     
  17. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    I was wondering if an injector was leaking, pushing the mix rich for one cylinder and tricking the computer into pulling the mix too lean to run properly on the other three. But you've had the same trouble with two sets of injectors, so that's out. I'm not even sure it has the authority to go that lean on a cold start/open loop.

    I'm not familiar with the fuel cut-off tool you're talking about, so for right now I'll make the dangerous assumption that it works as described and... causes a total fuel cut-off.

    If the cut-off function causes the engine to run better, then cold raw logic says the engine is already getting enough fuel (how?) OR the engine wasn't actually running- just being cranked over on electricity.

    That's why I was suggesting starting fluid in the intake. You may find that you can get the engine to run properly by supplementing the fuel supply. Maybe running long enough to make a charge, reveal another problem, store a code etc...
     
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  18. Cosmo Tigato

    Cosmo Tigato Active Member

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    I will swap the HV batt to a fresh one I just put together.
    Then get it running, sneak the Starting Fluid straw in the manifold MAP or PCV port and give it a spray.

    How does all this make sense when,
    The exhaust from the tail pipe has a misfire sound, normal clear smoke, and some condensation.
    When in the xTool D7 Special functions menu I select "All Cylinder Fuel Cutoff" shaking/rattle goes away and
    the tail pipe has a normal sound, clear smoke, some condensation.
    The Exhaust does NOT have a heavy gas smell. [The exhaust odor on this prius is the same as my prius]

    Thanks for the help
     
  19. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    It's a pretty good puzzle to work without benefit of onboard diagnostic codes.

    I don't know how you get an engine to keep running (let alone run better) when you command a total fuel cut-off.

    That's part of why I'm curious to know how it does with an unrelated fuel source, such as starting fluid or propane. Basically anything other than the gas in its own tank.
     
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  20. Cosmo Tigato

    Cosmo Tigato Active Member

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    I will run the Starting Fluid test Saturday and report my findings

    Thanks for the help