2013 Ford Fusion Hybrid, and poor FE reason

Discussion in 'Ford Hybrids and EVs' started by acdii, Dec 5, 2012.

  1. acdii

    acdii Active Member

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    I just had a chat with a couple other new Fusion owners, one that has good FE in his car, and one that does not. When I asked them what tires are on the car, the one with good MPG has Michelin Energy tires on it, the one getting poor MPG, like mine has Goodyear Eagles on it, so looks like Ford installed the wrong tires on a few of the Hybrids for some reason.
     
  2. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    There are very many reasons why different people in different situations get vastly different MPGs from the same car model, hybrid and otherwise. We need far more information than is available here before even attempting to point to any single cause.
     
  3. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Absolutely agree.
     
  4. acdii

    acdii Active Member

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    How about 3 owners that get 35 MPG confirming they all have the same Goodyear tires, and those getting good MPG having the Michelin tires!

    How about the known fact that non LRR tires on a Hybrid return poor MPG. The Goodyear LS-2 tires are not Green rated LRR tires.
     
  5. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Again, we don't know anything about those drivers, their commute length and speed, temperatures, tire pressures, alignment, heater usage (could cause ICE to run unnecessarily to provide cabin heat), driving habits, etc. Short trips, esp. in cold weather KILL FE. We also don't know how well broken in the cars and tires are along w/the state of wear when comparing "good" vs. "bad".

    I wouldn't be surprised if you could find a driver who gets better mileage with the "bad" tires than one w/the "good" tires.

    See Tire Tech Information - Tire Rolling Resistance Part 3: Changes to Expect When Switching from Worn-Out to New Tires.

    And, unfortunately, using MPG instead of "gallonage" causes a sneaky illusion. See Car and Driver: Mileage? No, it's Your Gallonage that Really Counts | PriusChat
     
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  6. acdii

    acdii Active Member

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    One of those drivers happens to be me. Been driving Hybrids since 2007, so yes I know all about them. Sure, new tires dont report back perfect MPG right away, but a 12 MPG difference between what it should get and what it does get, when all factors to get the best MPG possible are met? Considering the fact I drove it in perfect hybrid weather conditions that easily get me 41+ in the 2010, and I could barely top 35 in the new one, while other drivers are reporting 50+ and show their dash readout as proof, with fewer miles on the car than mine, and they confirm they have the Michelin tires, tends to support my claims.

    I also had these tires, or rather very similar, same brand, model but different style, the RS-A ones on my Fusion Sport and they were not very efficient either.

    The new Fusion has a driving coach, three bar graphs, one for acceleration, one for braking and one for cruising. When all three bars are maxed out, you are getting the most MPG possible, so over a 40 mile trip, with all tree maxed out, and the best I got was 35 MPG, instead of 47 MPG, and add in that under ICE power, the instant readout never goes over 40 MPG, unlike my 2010, leads me to believe there is a problem, and so far it allpoints to the type of tire.

    When I test drove the Cmax over a 10 mile drive, after letting it warm up, and resetting everything, I easily got 44 MPG in it, and it was brand new. It has the Michelin Energy Saver tires on it. My 2010 has the same tires on it, but the 2013 has the Goodyears.
     
  7. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    What do you mean by "what it should get"?
     
  8. acdii

    acdii Active Member

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    Anywhere between 43-47 MPG, which is what other drivers are seeing in theirs.

    This morning, drove it like I stole it, got 35 MPG. So whether I drive it like a Hybrid, P&G, hypermiling, whatever, or drive it like a normal car, fast starts, speeding, whatever, it gets 35 MPG.

    Next week driving to FL, so I will have a better handle on what it's highway MPG is then using the Ecocruise.

    I am pretty much convinced the issue is the Goodyear tires.
     
  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Did you op for the 18 inch wheels? It appears the Michelin tires are only on the 17in wheels and the 18's get the Good Year.
     
  10. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Not a good way to measure MPG. You should include the warm up as you would have in every real-world trips after ownership.
     
  11. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Yeah, but real-world trips might be much longer than the 5 to 10 miles a test drive usually runs at the dealer. Going by test drive results is just a poor way to gauge what mpg a car will return for a person. Actually knowing what their current car returns for them probably would give a person a better idea of what a new car would get than the dealer test drive.
     
  12. acdii

    acdii Active Member

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    I do. I test drove the Cmax after letting it warm up, as it was a cold windy day, very windy I might add, and returning 40 MPG was a good sign. My Father in law has a Cmax and is getting consistently good MPG in it. My 2010 gets me anywhere from 38 to 41 these days, unless temps drop into the 20's, then I see 37. I drive the new one the same way, and can barely get to 35.

    I am getting frustrated though with the new one. I set the eco cruise at 55 MPH, and the instant economy barely touched 30 MPG. This is on flat roadway, and it never kicked into EV, which means there is something dragging the car, and the only thing I can point to are the tires.

    It's one of those, if I knew the tires would affect it, I never would have bought it. Seriously someone prove me wrong that it isnt the tires, because all points indicate the tires are the problem.

    Not a very good photo, but best I could get while driving in the dark. This is the highest it goes on the scale, if I start backing off when not on cruise, it switches to EV, and it slows down quickly, and switches back to ICE when I try to maintain speed.

    I have seen pics of others who have fewer miles with much higher average, in fact one guy has it in the 50's.
     

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  13. xs650

    xs650 Senior Member

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    Ugh, my 400 hp Corvette would beat 30 mpg at 55 mph.

    You are probably correct on the tires being the main cause but don't rule out poor wheel alignment.

    Tires will significantly affect the fuel economy of any car that gets high fuel economy. Too bad Ford has a problem getting high FE tires on them. A good course of action would be to get your wheel alignment checked and put new LRR tires on the car. I realize your car should have been equipped with LRR tires from the factory, but now it's up to you to fix the problem if it bugs you and you keep the car.
     
  14. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Have you tried raising the tire pressure to reduce contact patch? It could simulate an LRR tire? I don't know, I'm just throwing out ideas here.
     
  15. acdii

    acdii Active Member

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    I stopped by the dealer tonight, the tires are at 38 PSI, 4 above the factory specs.

    I am puzzled though, been using the fuel log app on my iphone and my second fill reports 40.5 MPG, yet the dash readout when the car is turned off after a trip has only shown 40 MPG twice in all my trips.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Cold inflation pressure (as in, not having been driven very far)? I don't go to a dealer to check tire pressure. I check them myself.
     
  17. acdii

    acdii Active Member

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    I was out and about, and they were on the way. I just wanted to make sure they weren't low with the way the car feels. It feels like it has something dragging it down. It does not roll easy like the 2010 does. I am giving it a once over on Saturday while everything is cold. Going on a trip to Florida, and thinking of setting all four to 40 PSI for the trip. After the trip I will have a better idea on the tire theory. I can also check for abnormal wear patterns after a few thousand miles of highway.

    Still hard to imagine tires making that big a difference in FE, a couple MPG, ok, but 7-12? I have to admit though, the car does handle great.
     
  18. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The dash could very well be under reporting.
    Take the tires to max sidewall. It will improve cornering along with rolling resistance. Reduce the pressure from there if the ride is too rough.
    Get the dealer to check the alignment. It could have been knocked out during transport. Ability to go straight isn't a good guide. Problems on two wheels could cancel out the pulling but still put a lot of drag on the system.
     
  19. acdii

    acdii Active Member

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    I'm taking a trip on Sunday to Florida, and plan to pump up the tires before I go, but the alignment check will need to wait. Who knows, maybe after a few thousand highway miles, it will start to shine. I agree though, I think the dash is off, or there was a bubble in the tank, and it didn't fully fill. My guess is the latter though, it was down to 10 miles to E when I filled up, and it only took 10 gallons.
     
  20. jsfabb

    jsfabb Active Member

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    I had contacted Maximus (cmaximus) from fuelly, who has the highest mpg for a 2013 C-Max Hybrid. Here is the correspondence, which includes info about which tires he has and his use of hypermiling.

     
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