1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

2014 Prius two P3190 - Poor Engine Power

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by metrogtiguy, Dec 29, 2021.

  1. metrogtiguy

    metrogtiguy Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2021
    21
    5
    0
    Location:
    Bradenton, FL
    Vehicle:
    2014 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Ok, the saga continues getting this bad boy to run. So far, I've done the following

    Grid charged battery
    Oil change
    Spark Plugs
    Cleaned intake and TB
    Cleaned MAF
    Cleaned fuel injectors
    replaced vacuum lines
    Checked timing
    replaced fuel pump, drained and cleaned tank
    Checked compression, 180psi on all 4
    Checked for spark, all 4 coils are ok
    Replaced ECU

    Now that I've replaced the ECU, I can now get a response from the throttle body, and the engine will start and rev when you put it in drive. Then about 10 seconds later, it shuts down, and throws P3190 - low engine power. Does any of this from Techstream mean anything to anyone?
     

    Attached Files:

    #1 metrogtiguy, Dec 29, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2021
  2. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2013
    16,470
    8,386
    0
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    II
    What was originally wrong with this car? Did you ever get the codes on the car? That's a lot of work you did to the car, hopefully it needed all that stuff.

    Sounds like your car never really started if it shut down after 10 seconds. Just the battery spinning the engine. Does it have gas?
     
  3. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2012
    10,959
    4,441
    0
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Yea, 10 seconds is about how long a Prius hybrid battery will spin the engine before it gives up because it didn't start. Let us know what spark plugs looked like/smelled like when you replaced them? Also maybe keep trying because there's still air in the fuel system? Then next would be doing a compression test on engine and then get a camera down in there to see if the valves look ok...
     
  4. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    23,437
    15,186
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    For starters, you can see in the freeze frame that the engine never did start. You see the requested engine torque power down on row 101, where the ECM would like to see it produce around 8 newton meters kilowatts, and the actual engine torque two rows further down, a negative number; the engine is still being spun, not spinning on its own.*

    I am not sure what to make of the short term fuel trim being minus 21 percent; I think that's about pegged as low as it can go. But I don't think I've ever looked at what that reading normally does, so early in the start sequence.

    I am also a little surprised to see the manifold absolute pressure as high as it is. It is at atmospheric or above, even with the engine sucking away at 973 rpm behind a 5% open throttle. I'd normally expect to see a decent vacuum, somewhere down around 28 kPa, at normal idle conditions. Makes me wonder if there could be unmetered air getting into the manifold somewhere (only, then, wouldn't STFT be positive rather than negative? weird). Or something wonky in the valve train.

    But again, I am not sure I've ever watched MAP very closely at this early stage in starting.

    * edit: Techstream always throws me with that typo. It has the label for "actual engine torque" and the proper units (Nm), but two rows up it has a label "requested engine torque" but with units of power (kW). I remember checking once, and the units are right and the label is wrong; that row should be labeled "requested engine power".
     
    #4 ChapmanF, Dec 29, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2021
  5. metrogtiguy

    metrogtiguy Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2021
    21
    5
    0
    Location:
    Bradenton, FL
    Vehicle:
    2014 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Long story short, I bought it from a towing company that put a new engine in it, but didn't want to spend the money on putting a battery in it. So, there are a ton of unknowns, which is why I did all that work, since I have almost no history on the car, or the engine. It was sitting for almost 2 years, so the gas was basically foggy garbage and the fuel pump was completely locked up.
    I noticed that it was basically atmosphere also. That would have to be a giant vacuum leak to keep it at 1atm while it's cranking. I would suspect a valve train issue, but it has 180psi across the board, so the engine is making compression, which is what is confusing me heck out of me. Usually if there's a bent valve, bad headgasket, or if the timing was off, it would be low on at least 1 cylinder. That, or the cam is completely missing, and all of the valves are closed, hahaa.
    The compression test passed with flying colors, cyl 1-4 were all between 179 and 180psi. The old plugs were nice and tan, didn't see any evidence of a blown headgasket at all. I replaced them anyway, just to be sure they were fresh. I've attempted to start it about 20 times, and there is fuel getting to the cylinders. When I loosely had the plugs in, with my spark tester attached, I could see some fire coming out of the plug hole. So I'm getting fuel and spark. It has 2/3 of a tank of fresh gas in it too, and a brand new fuel pump. I flushed the lines out using the pump, using the line disconnect under the hood. I also removed the fuel rail, flushed it, pulled the injectors, and cleaned them using a cleaning tool, a can of injector cleaner, and a 12v battery.
     
  6. metrogtiguy

    metrogtiguy Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2021
    21
    5
    0
    Location:
    Bradenton, FL
    Vehicle:
    2014 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Since I'm a n00b at working on priuses. Would a plugged catalytic converter exhibit this behavior? I would think the lack of airflow would definitely prevent it from pulling a vacuum. But I can't find any posts/documents on how these behave when a cat is plugged up.
     
  7. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    23,437
    15,186
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    I don't know if you'd even see good compression that way. :) Gotta be something to compress....
     
  8. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2013
    16,470
    8,386
    0
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    II
    "so the gas was basically foggy garbage and the fuel pump was completely locked up"

    Are you serious? Gasoline turns into foggy garbage after it sits?

    My thinking is the tow company that sold you the car attempted to repair this car and ended up giving up on it. Can't see them go through the entire difficult engine replacement and not do the easy battery replacement.
     
    Tim Jones likes this.
  9. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    23,437
    15,186
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Maybe back out an O2 sensor and measure for back pressure while cranking?

    can get pretty darned garbagey, if there isn't something like Sta-Bil in it.
     
  10. metrogtiguy

    metrogtiguy Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2021
    21
    5
    0
    Location:
    Bradenton, FL
    Vehicle:
    2014 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Haha, I'm thinking they didn't spend the time to finish it. The engine didn't have oil yet, most of the coolant lines weren't hooked up, quite a bit of the wiring harness wasn't hooked back up yet, the interior is mostly taken apart, and it was absolutely caked in dust. It looked like a "Why are you wasting time on that car, we have other stuff to do" job, that got stuck in the back of the lot, and forgotten about.

    The O2 sensor isn't a bad idea. I'll do that tomorrow when I have a 2nd set of hands here to do that. Jumping out of the car, and diving under it in under 10 seconds sounds a bit more acrobatic that I'd want to do, haha
     
  11. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    23,437
    15,186
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    I'm forced to admit that I don't happen to know what a normal back pressure reading under those conditions would be. But maybe somebody here does.
     
  12. metrogtiguy

    metrogtiguy Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2021
    21
    5
    0
    Location:
    Bradenton, FL
    Vehicle:
    2014 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Unhooked the exhaust, and had the same issue. I did out my hand over it, and felt it getting sucked in though, which is definitely not right. I took a closer look at the engine, and it looks like someone had the timing chain cover off at one point. It was too hot/humid today to do any serious work, but I'm going to assume someone has the timing 180 degrees off on at least one of the cams. I'll pull the timing chain cover this week and update!
     
  13. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    23,437
    15,186
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    This is shaping up not to be one of those boring stories that everyone's heard before.
     
  14. metrogtiguy

    metrogtiguy Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2021
    21
    5
    0
    Location:
    Bradenton, FL
    Vehicle:
    2014 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Well boys, my hunch was correct. Someone has definitely been in this engine before, and they don't seem to have been sober while doing it. It looks like it has a new cylinder head, but the timing marks are WAY WAY WAY off. I mean, look at these pics. It's not even close. Time to pull the side of the engine off!
     

    Attached Files:

  15. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    23,437
    15,186
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Before diving right into that project, remember for a moment that the colored links will not be at their appointed places every single time the marks come up.

    Give that crank a bunch more turns around, until you have seen those orange links going past the cams nine or more times, and see if they didn't line up with the sprocket marks any one of those times.

    If one time they did, the timing is OK.

    The "nine times around for the chain" is not the magic number for every engine; you have to work it out from the numbers of chain links and sprocket teeth. We did that for the Gen 3 engine over in this thread here, if you want to see how the math is done.
     
  16. metrogtiguy

    metrogtiguy Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2021
    21
    5
    0
    Location:
    Bradenton, FL
    Vehicle:
    2014 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    I had to have cranked that thing around a couple dozen times waiting for them to line up, and they never did. Taking a break now, but I got it all apart, and I'm getting everything lined back up.
     
  17. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    23,437
    15,186
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Usually when I hear "put a new engine in it", I'm not thinking "took the sorry thing all apart, then put it back together wrong and then put it in" ....
     
  18. metrogtiguy

    metrogtiguy Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2021
    21
    5
    0
    Location:
    Bradenton, FL
    Vehicle:
    2014 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    That's usually the case! I wasn't thinking that either. But, I got it all back together, and its running like a champ! Just took it for a spin around the block. Now to put all of the other parts back on it, and get her on the road! Thanks everyone for all of the support, and info the community puts together. I couldn't have figured this car out without you guys!

    Now to get this half-dead battery a few charging/discharging cycles, so it can perform again.