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2017 Prius Prime First Drive: Best Prius Ever

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-2022)' started by Danny, Jul 11, 2016.

  1. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    huh? they can hardly make a windshield. have you seen those threads?:eek:
     
  2. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    I forgot to check at NYIAS but it is definitely addressed. I asked the Chief Designer about the rear window and they said it was the most difficult part because they wanted the design but it obviously cannot have the distorted view when looking through it. They were pretty relieved and happy when they found the supplier that was able to do it.
     
  3. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Model X has a few ghosting issues in their mongo windshield - even tho their Peruvian high tec supplier purportedly claimed to have the reliability @ 100%. I suspect all these new curve geometries will be tougher to always do perfect.
    those issues were all remedied - i thought .... at least a year ago. No?
    .
     
  4. Redpoint5

    Redpoint5 Senior Member

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    More aggressive regen when letting off the throttle is a mistake. I'll keep repeating myself until I turn blue; the Eco mode button is worthless and should be turned into a regen selection mode that varies the regen at throttle off from nothing (real coasting), to heavy braking (for 1-foot operation).

    It's exciting to see a heat pump installed so that colder climates can run EV and defrost the windows.

    Very exciting to see all the safety features offered as standard equipment on the Prime.

    I foresee an aftermarket product that will change out that cup-holder back into a 5th seat. In some jurisdictions, the middle occupant won't even be required to wear a seat belt, since it isn't offered from the factory for that seating position.

    The auto EV/HV mode is a welcome additional feature. This will offload the very busy task that I undertake when driving the PiP.

    DC fast charge is a pointless feature on a car that gets excellent fuel economy in HV mode.

    Perhaps a reconstructed-titled Prime will be in my future a few years after it launches!
     
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  5. Mister MMT

    Mister MMT Active Member

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    Does anyone know whether the double electric motor operation will be available in the auto EV/HV mode? I believe to know it will not in HV mode.

    Jan ;)
     
  6. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Aren't all trims of the 2017 Prius getting those safety features standard, or was it just an available option for all?

    I don't see an aftermarket company wanting to take on the potential liability of offering a fifth seat insert.

    Agree on the DC fast charge here. In Japan, the electric service to some homes might mean level 1 charging only, that might be longer than 8hrs. Plus, Chademo connections are a requirement for their emergency home powering system.

    Don't see why not for lower than highway speeds, at least technically.

    In HV mode, the assumption likely is that the SOC is low or the driver wants to preserve as much as possible for later EV driving. Having both motors draw from the battery would be inefficient overall and unnecessary when the ICE is available for use. Toyota could have reached the same decision for EV auto though. It's one of those questions we have to wait for.
     
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  7. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    Toyota could theoretically use dual electric motor operation any time the gas engine is off regardless of whether the "driving mode" is EV, EV Auto, or HV. As a practical matter, they only need to use dual motors when the battery is capable of putting out more power than MG2 can handle by itself. The peak battery output in the Prime appears to be 68 kW and MG2 can only handle a peak of 53 kW.

    When the battery is at a lower state of charge its ability to output at peak kW is lowered as well so HV operation on an "empty" battery likely just uses MG2. But, it's conceivable that if a driver manually switches to HV mode or uses EV Auto mode with a full battery pack that the Prime might, under some circumstances, use dual electric motors. We probably won't know for sure until someone hooks up an OBD-II device to see what MG1 and MG2 are actually doing.
     
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  8. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    the AWD versions of the hy-hi & it's sister product - the Lexus Rx AWD - if you observe the MFD during (most commonly) acceleration from off the line - you'll note this is the very time Toyota designed hybrids to takes advantage of EV torque. PiP's running in CS mode would otherwise get worse MPG's /use more gas. And once the ride's up to a constant speed - the ice will simply get the traction pack levels back up to where they ought to be. That's my guess fwiw, based off existing dual-motor applications.
    EDIT
    also, when traction packs are low, the ice simply rev's up higher to make up the EV SOC difference.
    .
     
    #48 hill, Jul 13, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2016
  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    But when the second motor we are talking about is the ICE's generator, everything has to come from the battery. It is an issue parallel hybrids have to deal with, and why the Ioniq has a larger capacity battery than the Prius.
     
  10. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    You mean the pack isn't bigger because Hyundai had researched that greater range is what customers want ?!?

    .
     
  11. Felt

    Felt Senior Member

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    Off topic .....
    Trollbait - I address this to you because I respect your opinion, and technical knowledge. (Plus this where I can ask you).

    Over on the Ionoq Forum, specifically the "Ioniq vs Prius" thread.
    A writer posted the Ioniq will have a belt-driven A/C compressor (and I assume brakes and steering).
    If that is true, the Ioniq is off of my short list. I cannot imagine a hybrid (where the ICE does not run continuously) using belt driven accessories.
    Is there an engineering way to power the accessories other than an electric motor ... or a belt drive?
     
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    could they be powering everything off of one motor w/ belt, rather than motorizing everything?
     
  13. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

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    That makes twelve kinds of no sense... yet the images in the press photos do show a belt-driven AC compressor, off of the ICE crankshaft.

    It's worth noting that the Sonata Hybrid has an electric AC compressor, so this isn't even a case of Hyundai not knowing they need to do this.

    Even belt-driving all accessories off of one motor makes no sense - Hyundai's used electric power steering for several years now, so the only other accessory of note would be the ICE water pump, and it's not an electric motor you'd want driving that.
     
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  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Are going to force me to type Ioniq hybrid and Prius hybrid?

    This is the first I have heard of this. With the Sonata hybrid using an electric one, and this info being traced to a photo, I say wait until the official specs come out from Hyundai.

    I'm not seeing any A/C compressor in any of the engine by photos I've found. Just spotting the belt is difficult, but I did see the HSG. That is belt driven
     
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  15. Mister MMT

    Mister MMT Active Member

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    In the Car and Driver review, cited by inferno in another thread, the author states:

    Toyota wouldn’t let us try driving the car in this EV Auto setting yet; officials say that it’s similar to the main operating mode of the previous Plug-In model, although where that car might fire its gas engine at one-third of the accelerator pedal’s travel, the Prime will allow the use of two-thirds before starting the four-cylinder.

    Can one deduce from this, that in the EV Auto setting, the one-way clutch always stays inactive and the electric motors cannot operate together? I would think yes.

    Jan o_O
     
  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    You could also deduce that EV auto isn't yet working well enough for outsiders to try, and still needs work in fine tuning.

    Since it is about making the most efficient use of what it available, I don't see EV auto using both motors for propulsion, but I won't rule out it happening at low speeds until the official word arrives.
     
  17. Mister MMT

    Mister MMT Active Member

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    It indeed looks like we still have to learn a lot about the functioning of the three modes!

    Jan
     
  18. Felt

    Felt Senior Member

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    Trollbait - I appreciate your response to my last question and your advise is good .... I'll wait and see what is revealed.

    One aspect of the question that has been discussed on the Ioniq Forum that seems to be a fact .... is that the ICE starter is belt driven.

    I believe the Prius uses MG1 or MG2 (I can't recall which and it makes no difference) to start the ICE. When considering that a hybrid's ICE stops and starts over and over (depending on the miles travelled, the number of stop lights and the hills climbed) a belt driven started seems like an absolute folly to me. The more I learn about the Ioniq the less interested I become.

    Any thoughts?
     
  19. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

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    To be fair, GM is running their lower-end hybrid systems (the eAssist systems) entirely through the accessory drive - ICE starting, acceleration assistance, generation loads required while driving, and regenerative braking all done through that belt.

    I'd say that if the belt drive was designed properly, this is not at all a problem - note that supercharged engines are putting even higher loads on their belt drive systems.

    This probably also helps the packaging of the hybrid system, and the smoothness of ICE startup while moving - it doesn't need an additional clutch between the MG and the ICE, and it doesn't have the harshness issues of dropping a clutch to start the ICE.
     
  20. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    That's the HSG (hybrid starter generator) I mentioned earlier. As the name implies, it replaces the starter and alternator, and is for more powerful than those components on a standard car. IIRC, it is 10 kW in Hyundai's system. Smaller than the M/G 1 in the Prius, but it isn't needed to do everything the M/G 1 does. It should be spinning the ICE up to higher rpms before starting like the M/G 1 does.

    I replaced the serpentine and water pump belts on our Sable not too long, being that they were showing cracking and 15 years old. It was the first belt I have ever changed in car ownership. Timing belts have service intervals of 80k to 100k miles. Many motorcycles have replaced the chain with a belt. I wouldn't worry about the HSG being belt driven.
     
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