1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

2017 Prius Prime (Plug-in Hybrid) Full Product Information & Technical Docs (PDF)

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-2022)' started by Danny, Oct 3, 2016.

  1. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    21,594
    11,213
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    How much floor space does a gen4 have with the front seats all the way back?

    The gen4 has a 0.2 inch longer wheelbase than the Volt.
    The numbers are from the model's sites, in inches, and front/rear.
    Column 1 Column 2 Column 3
    0 measurement Volt Prius
    1 head 37.8/35.8 39.4/37.4
    2 shoulder 56.5/53.2 55/53
    3 hip 53.7/51.3 53.4/51.9
    4 leg 42.1/34.7 42.3/33.4

    The only place the Prius has a clear, greater than an inch advantage is in the head room.
     
  2. giora

    giora Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2010
    1,966
    729
    0
    Location:
    Herzliya, Israel. Car: Euro version GLI
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    N/A
    Some calculations:
    EPA 124 MPGe is 27.2 kWh/100miles! (will be rounded to 27?) best of all cars with a plug?
    25miles times 0.272kWh/mile gives ~6.8 kWh from the wall or 5.8 kWh usable capacity (assuming 15% charging losses) which is ~66% of total 8.8 kWh devoted for EV, compared to the 62% usable for the PiP.
     
    #22 giora, Oct 3, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2016
    Danny likes this.
  3. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2009
    5,850
    4,017
    0
    Location:
    Westminster, Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    I don't know how they measure this stuff, but with the driver's seat where I put it, the distance from the front of the back seat to the back of the front seat in the Volt was about 5 inches. In my Prius, it is about 15 inches.
     
  4. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    12,747
    5,243
    57
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    The difference is easy to see too. No measuring device needed. It's obvious the moment you sit down. I certainly did. My wife found it amusing... and got a nice photo of the balding spot on my head upon opening the hatch to show the tight fit. Note that in only 5'8", which isn't tall.
     
    bisco likes this.
  5. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    11,309
    3,586
    1
    Location:
    Northern VA (NoVA)
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    So let's further break down the Gen4/Prime space numbers, just for the heck of it:

    Total Interior Space
    Toyota Prime 111.3-ft3 (19.8-ft3 EPA Cargo space/12.7-ft3 Luggage space quote overseas)
    Gen4 (no spare) 120.5-ft3 (27.4-Ft3 EPA Cargo space/17.7-ft3 quoted overseas)
    Gen4 (w/ spare) 117.7-ft3

    Since Prime has no spare tire, the better comparison is against the no-spare Gen4, where we see the Prime is 9.2-ft3 less Total space than Gen4 (120.5 - 111.3 = 9.2 ft3)

    If we look at EPA Cargo Space (which is a questionable volume basis that we do not fully understand) the Prime is quoted as 27.4 - 19.8 = 7.6-ft3 less Cargo space.

    But if we look at Overseas luggage space, which is probably a better measure of true volume in the rear hatch, we see 17.7 - 12.6 = 5.1 less Cargo space.

    That leaves up to 4-ft3 unaccounted for (given Prime is quoted as a total of 9.2-ft3 less than Gen4). Maybe even more (5-ft3 or so less) if the Prime rear bucket seats exclude less cabin space than a full bench. So up to 4-5 ft3 less than Gen4 in the rear seat area, possibly accounting for lack of the much discussed Seat #5

    The other implication, the Prime's "luggage" space might only be about 3.4-ft3 less than the Gen4 with spare, but there is apparently also 3-4 ft3 less in rear seat area too, not to mention you get 3 seats in the rear on Gen4 (no spare).

    Also if the rear bucket seats exclude less cabin space, could it be Trollbait's point comes into play, could it be that a full rear seat forces inside volume less than 110-ft3 which would take Prime down to the compact category, which may not be desired for some marketing reason?
     
    #25 wjtracy, Oct 4, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2016
    Tideland Prius and KrPtNk like this.
  6. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    21,594
    11,213
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    By the sounds of it, the European measurement is similar to what the EPA requires for trunks; the space is filled with boxes of a defined size. The volume is calculated from the number of boxes that fit into the space. This method would cut out the "nooks and crannies" created by the wheel wells and interior walls from the volume. Further, I bet these boxes are more rigid than typical luggage. So create packers should be able to easily exceed this measurement in use.

    For hatches and other non-trunk space, the EPA uses physical measurements of the space. With those aforementioned nooks and crannies, along with roof and window slope, it is easy to see how a guy with a tape measure can fiddle around to get a more desirable measurement. There are numerous revisions to the SAE method to better define where and how the measurements are to be taken, along with addressing what position the seats should be in, but for EPA requirements, the one from the '70s is good enough. Which is what Toyota states they use. Ford and GM state they use the most recent one.

    I agree that using the Prius without spare volume is the proper one for comparing the Prime. The 7.6 cu.ft. difference using EPA is the same as between the C-max and the Energi model.

    Having four seats is more likely to reduce cabin space than five. IIRC, the gen1 Volt had 2 cu.ft. less than the Cruze of the same year. Which sees like too much from slight differences in head room and such. GM likely had to measure around the battery tunnel in the Volt. In photos of the Prime, the rear arm rest is lower than that of a chair. It had to fit under the seat back when down, but if were higher, it likely would be subtracted out of the cabin space.
     
  7. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    11,309
    3,586
    1
    Location:
    Northern VA (NoVA)
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Yes I agree EU VDA method is box loading.
    What confuses me, when Toyota-Japan quotes Luggage space for Gen4 as 502-liter (17.7-ft3) I don't know if that is actual volume or VDA volume. If it is VDA volume, then I think we need to increase it by ~10% for the spaces that the luggage does not fill.
     
  8. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    21,594
    11,213
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    It is likely Japan's own method.
     
  9. GT4Prius

    GT4Prius Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2014
    530
    412
    0
    Location:
    Cumbria, UK
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Excel
    Hi Danny, the links you provided are sending me to your post on Roadstor. Not seeing any prime stuff there. What am I doing wrong?

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  10. GT4Prius

    GT4Prius Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2014
    530
    412
    0
    Location:
    Cumbria, UK
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Excel
  11. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2009
    5,850
    4,017
    0
    Location:
    Westminster, Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Maybe this will work for you.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. GT4Prius

    GT4Prius Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2014
    530
    412
    0
    Location:
    Cumbria, UK
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Excel
    Thanks. It does. Noticed a contradiction between the main table which says EV range up to 25 miles, and the footnote which says it's up to 22 miles.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,571
    48,862
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    that's an old document. danny said absolutely 25 miles ev only by epa measurement. however, i don't think we've sen updated toyota specs.
     
  14. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2009
    5,850
    4,017
    0
    Location:
    Westminster, Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Realize that the difference between 22 and 25 is much smaller than the difference in range you'll get just from driving on different roads at different speeds in different temperatures and conditions. You might get 12 miles in lousy conditions or 40 miles in ideal conditions.
     
  15. giora

    giora Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2010
    1,966
    729
    0
    Location:
    Herzliya, Israel. Car: Euro version GLI
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    N/A
    bisco likes this.
  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,571
    48,862
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,571
    48,862
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    of course. i was more concerned with the 'a blended operation of electric and gas' statement than the miles. but 25 ev on the epa is a pretty strong statement. the pip could only pull off 6. and fuel.gov still shows zero.
     
  18. Prashanta

    Prashanta Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2016
    292
    242
    0
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Technology
    The coefficient of drag is listed as 0.25. That would be slightly worse than the rating for 2016 Prius Liftback (0.24)according to Wikipedia. What gives? Prime being longer and having the wavy rear glass should have reduced the drag.

    I can't post link to Wikipedia (new here). But you can google "Automobile drag coefficient".
     
  19. GT4Prius

    GT4Prius Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2014
    530
    412
    0
    Location:
    Cumbria, UK
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Excel
    This is covered elsewhere in Priuschat. They made the front less aerodynamic for styling reasons so although the back helps it's still worse than the Gen4

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
    Prashanta likes this.
  20. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,571
    48,862
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    correct, your avatar says it all. those beautiful fish gills are costing aerodynamic dollars.
     
    Prius Maximus and Prashanta like this.
  21. Prashanta

    Prashanta Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2016
    292
    242
    0
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Technology
    That's the first thing I thought when I saw the slight protrusion. Then I dismissed myself because I thought Toyota engineers must know more about aerodynamics than me. Dammit Toyota, why?!