2017 Prius Prime (Plug-in Hybrid) Full Product Information & Technical Docs (PDF)

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by Danny, Oct 3, 2016.

  1. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    I am with @Lee Jay here, I think it is limited to about 16A no matter what the voltage to be used.
     
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  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    how much faster would a 16a evse charge the prime at 120v? what are they saying 5 1/2 hours at 12a?
     
  3. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    Well, 12/16 is 0.75 and 0.75*5.5 hours = 4.125 hours.

    And that's assuming it will accept 16A at 120V which is not guaranteed.

    BTW, I'm not entirely without expertise in this area. I'm an electrical engineer and my Masters was in power, specifically power electronics and electric machines.
     
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  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    yes, that was my original question, what is the max it will accept.
     
  5. EV-ish

    EV-ish Active Member

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    16 is 1.33x 12

    33% faster by arithmetic, but heat losses as the juice is transmitted down the wire increase proportional to the square of the amperage so in practice, less than 33% faster. Lee will have to chime in with a number but it is less of an impact overall than you might guess because most of the losses are in the EVSE and charger electronics which is ~ a fixed loss.

    IIRC for an example, the EPA presumes 15% charging losses from the wall using 240v while the same power over 120v would be around 20% total loss. Each case is power from the wall compared to power entering the battery.

    This is why L2 charging is attractive from a convenience/speed of charging rate over and above the voltage and (maybe) amperage differences: L1 is constrained from the wall to 120v*12A and then some 20% of power is lost by the time it reaches the battery so the charging rate works out to be around 1.44*0.8 kW = 1.152 kW

    If L2 charging is used the charger output limit of 3.3 kW determines the battery charge rate; the car actually pulls around 3.3/0.85 = 3.88 kW from the wall. It is probably not accidental that the L2 EVSE is set to 16A at 240v, equal to 3.84 kW. It matches up quite well with the maximum output rating of the car charger once losses are included.

    I think.
     
    #165 EV-ish, Nov 18, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2016
  6. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    No.
    12 is 075x16 so 25% faster as Lee jay said.
    If you have to charge 6 kWh with a 2 kW rate it takes 3 hours while doing it with 3 kW rate (1.50x2) it takes 2 hours (0.67 of the time or 0.33% faster not 50%).
    I also think that EPA 15% charging losses is for 120V charging not 240V.
     
  7. EV-ish

    EV-ish Active Member

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    3 is 75% of 4
    4 is 133% of 3
     
  8. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    Correct. So...
     
  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Yes, I even said in the post your first quoted, "To get faster charging from a 20A outlet, you'll need a EVSE that can handle the higher amperage." In what follows that, I was pointing out that using an EVSE higher than a 20amp rated one won't charge a Prime faster.

    As is, the EVSE you linked to is an AC Level 2. NEMA L6-30R (30A 240V Twist-Lock) is the outlet type it needs for plugging into. Adapters are needed for other outlets. The links in product page are to this one, 5-15 to L6-30 Adapter - For charging on standard 120V outlets [A15L30] - $25.00 : EVSE Upgrade, Low-Cost EV Charging Solutions. That lets the EVSE be plugged into a standard US 15A/120V outlet. There is a 20A/120V adapter, that would allow AC Level 1 charging at 16amps, but you have to contact the seller about it.
     
  10. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    This is a L1/L2 auto detect EVSE. It has also a 'pigtail' short extension 10AWG with one side connected to the L6-30R twist lock and you can install whatever you need on the other end to mate your outlet.
     
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i have one. open evse project. it's mounted on my garage wall, so, i've never used it for 120v.
     
  12. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    You are aware there is a middle "Premium" trim between the Plus and the Advanced, right? Premium will include 3-dr SKS. You don't have to jump all the way to the Advanced. Premium also includes power driver's seat, SofTex trimmed seats and the 11.6" HD screen.
     
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  13. CTorPrius?

    CTorPrius? Member

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    What is "SKS"?
     
  14. giora

    giora Senior Member

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  15. CTorPrius?

    CTorPrius? Member

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  16. EV-ish

    EV-ish Active Member

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    Yes, thanks. I meant the middle trim but mixed up the labels.
     
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  17. Prius Maximus

    Prius Maximus Senior Member

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    FYI, there is a glossary that has just about every Prius abbreviation used on Priuschat ---> Link here
     
  18. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Also, I apologise for my post above. It sounded condescending but it wasn't my intention. Sorry.
     
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  19. Gen 3 for me

    Gen 3 for me Member

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  20. Gen 3 for me

    Gen 3 for me Member

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    I am thinking of replacing my 2015 Prius with a Prius Prime if I can use it to take short trips in town in EV mode without the engine starting in cold weather. I know Toyota has stated that there is a battery heater built into the end of the charging cycle to make the battery operate efficiently during cold weather by heating the battery to 32 degrees F.

    So it should be no problem in my case of my attached garage which stays 30 degrees warmer than outside conditions to have the plugged in Prius Prime work in EV to get me to work 1 mile away in January without starting in the morning. However, will the gas engine have to start when I get out of work at least 9 hours later, parked in the January cold to get me home 1 mile? Or is there the possibility of programming the car so the battery supplies energy to heat itself to allow me to drive the short distance home to plug it in and recharge the battery for the next day. I realize EV range would be lost, but in my case this is not a problem. If you did not already guess I do not like starting my gas engine for short drives and often waste gas to properly warm up my gas engine properly to avoid condensation in the engine oil.
     
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