2017 Toyota Prius Prime: 25 Miles EV Range, 54 MPG, $22,600*

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by Danny, Oct 3, 2016.

  1. Sabby

    Sabby Active Member

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    Initially I felt the Prime was not too compelling. I am very happy to see they priced it right so that it can compete. The Prime is a much better value proposition than the first gen plug in.
     
  2. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    No AMT restrictions since 2009:

    Q. Does the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT) impact the alternative motor vehicle credit?

    A. Starting in 2009, the new law allows the alternative motor vehicle credit, including the tax credit for purchasing hybrid vehicles, to be applied against the alternative minimum tax. Prior to the new law, the alternative motor vehicle credit could not be used to offset the AMT.

    Energy Incentives for Individuals: Questions and Answers
     
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  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    good info, thanks!
     
  4. JamesBurke

    JamesBurke Senior Member

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    Minimum gross incomes needed to claim $4,500 Prime Federal tax credit from 2015 F1040 and Tax Table.

    Single employee: $43,350(gr)-$6,300(SD)-$4,000(1Ex)=$33,050 taxable=$4,500 Tax

    Head of House employee: $51,650(gr)-$9,250(SD)-$8,000(2Ex)=$34,400 taxable=$4,500 Tax
    (Add $4,000 to gross for each additional dependent/exemption)

    Married joint employee(s): $56,750(gr)-$12,600(SD)-$8,000(2Ex)=$36,150 taxable=$4,500 Tax
    (Add $4,000 gross for each additional dependent/exemption)

    Self-employment, health care ect. credits or deductions would all have to be added back on to your gross.

    Families realistically need a gross in the $70,000 range and up to claim the entire $4,500.

    Minimum income needed to claim Volt, Leaf, or Tesla level credit.

    Single employee: $57,100(gr)-$6,300(SD)-$4,000(1Ex)=$46,800 taxable=$7,500 Tax

    Head of House employee: $69,950(gr)-$9,250(SD)-$8,000(2Ex)=$52,700 taxable=$7,500 Tax
    (Add $4,000 to gross for each additional dependent/exemption)

    Married joint employee(s): $76,750(gr)-$12,600(SD)-$8,000(2Ex)=$56,150 taxable=$7,500 Tax
    (Add $4,000 gross for each additional dependent/exemption)
     
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  5. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    For those purchasing who can not get most or all of the federal tax credit, a lease may be more lucrative. If leasing, income is not considered and the manufacturer will get the full credit which theoretically will be reflected in the lease price.
     
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  6. Ashlem

    Ashlem Senior Member

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    But if you go this route, make sure they do include the tax credit amount into the lease. Some banks may not include it, meaning for say a Chevy Volt LT trim at around $34k, you could theoretically end up paying full price for it, without benefiting from the tax credit at all.

    Anecdotal evidence here, but a few months back I was getting quotes from various Chevy dealers for a Volt lease. For the LT trim I was quoted almost $400 a month for 36 months, with a buyout price of around $20k. For the higher end Premier trim, that quote jumped up to $500 a month, with about the same buyout price at the end of the lease. And these prices were despite the Chevy website having a $299 a month lease with about $3k down, with the small print disclaimer that the actual lease will vary.

    When I inquired about how the $7500 tax credit gets applied to it, none of them could give me a good answer, and genuinely seemed shocked that I would even ask about it. It almost seemed as GM Financial (they said I had to lease through them) gets to claim the $7500 tax credit while forcing me to pay nearly full MSRP for the Volt.

    But maybe they really just didn't know because it is a niche vehicle with a weird tax credit, and they probably sell more SUV's in a day than Volts in a few months.

    I concluded that at those prices, I'd be better off buying one, and getting whatever I could from the tax credit for myself. I don't make enough to qualify for the full $7500, but at least I'd get something back.

    Keep in mind this was in Wisconsin, which has no state rebates/incentives for plug-ins. States with friendlier EV laws such as California might offer much better lease rates.
     
  7. ltlurker

    ltlurker Junior Member

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  8. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    7500 for the Volt.
     
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  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    fortunately, they can't force you to buy anything.
     
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  10. jdonalds

    jdonalds Active Member

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    I'm going to have to overlook a list of things I don't like to buy the Prime, but at this point I'm thinking this will be our next car.

    Cons:
    1) No Spare tire. Big negative for me. This is one of the dumbest things car manufacturers are doing today. At least give me an inflatable spare tire and wheel. Where we live it is very easy to be in an area with no cell service and 50-100 miles from services. Having a spare means being back on the road in less than 1/2 hour. No spare means being stranded for who knows how long, and long delays plus possible towing charges once contact is made with a towing company.

    2) 19 Cu Ft cargo space. Big negative for me. 19' is better than almost all sedans and better than most hatchbacks though.

    3) White on steering wheel and console. Big negative for me. I think the big problem here is the color of white that Toyota selected. If it wasn't so much like a toilet it might be acceptable. I would be willing to spend a few hundred dollars to eliminate all of the white. Which it was an option. I think the white steering wheel and console accents look cheap and will show dirt and scratches quickly. Dark colors are more elegant; that's why cars have had dark colors for decades.

    4) Gauges still in the center instead of in front of driver. Big negative for me. A Prius standard that I hate.

    5) Four seats instead of five. We normally carry three or four but occasionally have carried five. However we have the 2015 Prius if we need to haul five.

    6) Cruise control stick on the steering wheel instead of stationary like the directional or wiper sticks. We have three Toyota vehicles and they all have a cruise control stick that rotates with the steering wheel. After eight years I still struggle to locate that darned little stick. This is a Toyota standard that is unlikely to change.

    Those, to me, are some pretty large barriers. So big that we didn't buy a 2016 hatchback and instead bought a 2015. But the Pros are so strong...

    Pros:
    1) Price. Holly Volt Batman Toyota priced this car to sell. I really think this is going to be a huge market success. In my opinion this is pretty much a Volt killer. There are a few who will still want the Volt for it's EV range but with a $6,000 discount it will be a difficult decision to buy a Volt over a Prime.

    2) 25 miles EV range. This pretty much matches our daily driving round trips. 12 miles to and from school in the morning, charge while our son is in school, then 12 miles to and from school to pick him up. Almost every other local trip is about 15 miles round trip. Perfect.

    3) No range anxiety. I really want an electric car but they are simply too expensive and have limited range for our occasional trips. 50+ mpg in hybrid mode is hard to beat. 600+ range will get us to our furthest destination without having to gas up.

    Things I don't care much about. These are no big deal and aren't attractive reasons to buy the Prime.

    1) The 11" screen looks horrible. It looks like a tablet mounted in portrait mode. I'd rather have buttons and physical controls for the radio and climate system. We also prefer to use a Garmin dash mounted GPS instead of a built in one that has high costs for map upgrades. The Garmin can be programmed while in motion.

    2) The Qi charger. No big deal to plug in a charge cable. We have Qi chargers at home but only use them when there is extra time as they are slow to charge.

    I will have to check into the amount of tax credits I can claim but any reduction in purchase price will be welcome and an incentive to buy. If I can get $2,000 tax credit and $2,000 from the state the cost will be in the $24K range. Then we can sell our excellent 2008 Prius three for about $4,000 bringing the purchase price down to $20K. What a deal.

    I'll have to wait until 2017 to buy a Prime, but at this point I'm thinking we will be buying one within the next several months.
     
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  11. kyw012

    kyw012 Junior Member

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    Does that mean we need to work to get the REBATE back ?
     
  12. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    I've had exactly one blow out in my lifetime, and it was on a very heavy vehicle (10,000 pounds total) that was (unbeknownst to be) running low on pressure. I've had exactly one "flat" but that was on a tire that was long worn out due to Ford's lousy design (it wore out on the inside where I couldn't see it despite being both new and aligned).

    I've had two tire punctures resulting in slow leaks. By slow, I mean around 1 psi per day.

    Modern tires just don't "blow" unless you run over a spike strip or a curb at high speed.

    I think the solution here is to pay attention to tire maintenance, watching the tire pressures which are visible from the driver's spot these days, and carry a plug kit and a compressor. I'm planning to remove Toyota's silly slime solution.
     
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  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    no work required, you just need to pay taxes. then, you don't have to.
     
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  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i would love a spare, but i've gotten used to throwing it in the back when necessary. not ideal, but i was a cub scout in another life.
     
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  15. ltlurker

    ltlurker Junior Member

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    can someone tell me why i3 and volt are getting 7500 tax rebate while prime is only looking at 4500?
     
  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    battery size. it's based on kw, and prime is much smaller. the goal of the tax credit is more ev, less gas.
    leaf and tesla also get $7,500., not sire about cmax, fusion and etc.
     
  17. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    It's based on kWh, not kW.
     
  18. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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  19. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The Energis will be a little less than the Prime; 7.6kWh battery.
    I think the Sonata has a slightly larger battery.
     
  20. CoolMoon

    CoolMoon New Member

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    So I have to purchase the prime before the end of this year in order to claim the tax credit next year? If I buy it January 2017, I have to wait until 2018 to get the $4500 tax credit?
     
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