2018 Prius Prime no longer getting 25 miles per charge

Discussion in 'Prime Fuel Economy & EV Range' started by Bejeffer, Dec 10, 2018.

  1. Bejeffer

    Bejeffer New Member

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    I'm retired and don't drive PP every day. Noticed the last month I'm averaging less than 20 miles per charge....today it was about 18. It might be something I'm not doing or don't know to do.....I generally leave in the EV default mode. Suggestions? It's been cold here lately and I keep the temp up...could it be something that simple? Thanks
     
  2. schja01

    schja01 One of just a few in Chicagoland

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    The heater, rear defogger will reduce your EV mileage. I’m seeing a reduction as well.
    J
     
  3. Usle

    Usle Member

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    You must mean actual miles, not the computer generated quess.
    In NH, summers the car guesses 32-34, now in 20-30 degree weather the computer is down to 22-24 miles per charge.
    So, assuming you mean actual miles driven, guessing they are at 75mph and yes cooler weather will require heat which eats mpg.
    I like to turn the ice on when going uphill or when at speed, saving the electric for around town and back roads (35mph)
     
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    welcome!
    it's winter, if you read the related threads, you will find that this is normal battery behavior.
    it will improve next spring.
    it has nothing to do with how much or often you drive, or anything else in your control.

    all the best!(y)
     
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  5. Bejeffer

    Bejeffer New Member

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    Thanks!

    thank you!

    Thank you!
     
    #5 Bejeffer, Dec 11, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 11, 2018
  6. huskers

    huskers Senior Member

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    Should be back to normal by St. Patty's Day.
     
  7. PiPLosAngeles

    PiPLosAngeles Active Member

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    I've noticed a HUGE difference just between my range in November when the car was brand new, when I could get to work on all EV with 38% left and now I can't make it with more than 20% left with only 3,000 miles on the car. The overnight lows in November were in the 45°F range and today they're in the 50°F range. I'm not sure it's all temperature related.

    One way to verify that it's not anything you are doing differently is to check the daily log in the car to see if your average miles/kWh has changed. When I check mine, it's actually gone up which means my driving behavior hasn't caused a decrease in range.

    The only reason I'm not panicking over such a dramatic loss of range (23% decrease) is because if it continues at this rate they're going to have to replace the battery under warranty in short order (although my experience with Toyota suggests it might take court action to force them to honor any warranties they have).
     
    #7 PiPLosAngeles, Jan 20, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2019
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    no warranty on range, specifically stated in the o/m. if history is a guide, it won't drop below 25 miles for a good long time
     
  9. PiPLosAngeles

    PiPLosAngeles Active Member

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    Range is irrelevant. It's all about battery capacity. That's why I don't bother with the miles display and only use the battery SOC. My "predicted range" is currently 38 miles, but that has no meaning. If I drive all downhill I'll get 75 - 80 miles, but if I drive all uphill I'll get 20.

    When your miles/kWh is stable and your range on the same drive is decreasing, that means the useful capacity of the battery is decreasing. Nissan is suffering from this issue with the Leafs.

    I know there's no warranty on range, but if the battery stops holding any kind of reasonable charge, it's a warranty issue. There are general fitness for purpose laws that override any manufacturer's disclaimers. They can't legally sell a battery operated car and say they don't guarantee the battery will work. Well, they can say it, but they can't practice it. If the range just decreases to a point where it's still considered "reasonable" and then levels off, then Toyota's off the hook. In that case, though, their reputation will suffer tremendously. Selling cars whose primary function degrades tremendously in a short period of time and giving customers the finger won't go well for Toyota for very long. They set a high standard with the PiP, which after 6 years and 140,000 miles still gets about 90% of the range it got on day 1. If they want repeat business, they can't continue selling cars that lose 50% of their performance in a year's time.

    EDIT - Also This Nissan LEAF Already Lost More Than Half Of Its Battery Capacity: Video
     
  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    no trouble codes, no warranty. range or capacity matter not. fitness for purpose lawsuit has never been tried, would be interesting, and costly.

    hopefully never comes to that
     
    #10 bisco, Jan 20, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2019
  11. PiPLosAngeles

    PiPLosAngeles Active Member

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    Unless Toyota royally miscalculated (like Nissan), or had a major supplier issue, I doubt the battery will degrade so rapidly in perpetuity. But in these days where manufacturers have been caught intentionally programming decreased performance into their products to encourage replacements, or tried substituting inferior parts in a system with an excellent reputation to "cash in" on word of mouth, you can never be sure what's going on. To some degree you just have to trust, but that's a delicate thing. It's difficult to earn and easy to lose.
     
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    agreed. some people lose more capacity than others, as measured by kWh's accepted. no one knows why.
     
  13. ziggy29

    ziggy29 Junior Member

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    Maybe. But almost everyone is reporting a fairly sudden drop in EV range since about November, whether they've had their car for a year or three months, so it almost has to be weather related. It may not be just the battery, either. If one hasn't checked the inflation of the tires, colder weather might mean underinflated tires, which will hurt the efficiency of any vehicle.
     
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  14. I'mJp

    I'mJp Active Member

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    For me, my drop was due to using the heater, and I need the heater because of the interior fog that you get when it's not on.
    I've experimented with this, by switching the heat on only when the fog is too thick,, and my range improved.

    But I'm not a native of Massachusetts and I don't think that I will get use to it when the weather man says that the high today is 9F.

    I'm leaving the heater on and taking the reduced range

    jp
     
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  15. PiPLosAngeles

    PiPLosAngeles Active Member

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    When it's really cold, just turning it to the lowest setting (60°F) seems almost hot. I wish it could go lower for hypermilers. When it's 30 outside it sure is more comfortable when the interior's 50, and wouldn't hurt mileage near as much as 60 or 70. Manually activating and deactivating works, but distracts from driving and makes wear and tear on the rocker switch.
     
  16. J Mike

    J Mike New Member

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    Today (February 20, 2019) we visited our local Toyota dealer where we purchased our Prius Prime new last August. We have just over 6,000 miles on the odometer. Our predicted mileage range has been under 20 miles for over one month when fully charged and prior to moving from our heated garage - fresh start - no preheating, etc. Service tech at the dealership gave us a bunch of bull about our driving style, etc. that to our thinking should not change our predicted driving range in any way before we leave our heated garage. We were promised a 25 mile driving range on battery alone - why is that predicted driving range now under 20 miles?

    We then called Toyota USA (1-800-331-4331). They gave us the same bull about how much snow was on the ground and how we will be driving in the future. To our way of thinking, none of this should impact our predicted driving range before we leave our heated garage.

    Could we gain some insight from you, our fellow Prius Prime owners/drivers?

    Mike
     
  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    welcome!

    unfortunately, the mech and toyota are correct. no one promised 25 miles of ev range. it is an era test rating. 'your mileage may vary'.
    it is used for a comparison with other vehicles, just like mpg's.

    many things affect ev miles: speed, hills, acceleration, hvac usage, tires and pressure, weather and etc.

    under ideal conditions, many here get up to 40 miles of range. under not so ideal conditions, 20 is not unreasonable.
     
  18. CraigM

    CraigM Active Member

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    I monitor, and suggest, looking at the display on the MID that shows the miles per kWh. The right column on the display shows the percentage of A/C load. The higher the A/C load, the more electricity being used to heat the car, and reduces the range.

    Yesterday, the display indicated 2% A/C load factor, and 4.5 miles per kWh. Mathematical, that would suggest I would have yielded about 27 miles.
     
  19. CraigM

    CraigM Active Member

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    26983E8B-037A-4CCC-A68C-2B4D4392AF9C.jpeg
     
  20. johnamerc

    johnamerc Junior Member

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    Been as low as 18 miles or so in snowy weather in Central NY my home base. On a road trip in the Southeast and just set a personal best Saturday driving North on FL 301 from Gainesville (Whole Foods . . . a nice place to charge) temps in the mid 80's no A/C 42 miles on that charge . . .Yeah!
     
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