2021 or 2022 Prius Prime will have better battery config

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by Blue-Adept, Jan 20, 2019.

  1. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    agreed. tough decisions these days too. with the prius, it was a workable solution after much searching, in a marketplace where everything was gassers.
    today, it's a wide open landscape, but it's all me too, and who can do it better.

    unless someone has a viable secret they're working on
     
  2. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    By your definition, the 2020 Yaris is vaporware. Correct?

    Toyota and Subaru announced joining up to work on a BEV dedicated platform back in the beginning of June. No details beyond it being for C-class cars and SUVs. That is vaporware.
    Toyota and Subaru Agree to Jointly Develop BEV-dedicated Platform and BEV SUV | Corporate | Global Newsroom | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website

    In September of last year, VW unveiled a rolling chassis of their BEV platform, as it would be used in production vehicles. Production of the ID.3 that is built on it is starting. Europeans might get it before we get the 2020 Yaris.
    VW unveils MEB platform for electric vehicles, launches 'Electric for all' campaign to have 'affordable' EVs - Electrek

    Please explain how that isn't evidence of VW leading Toyota in plug ins. Also, the eGolf out sells the Prime in Europe, and Europe is a bigger plug in market than the US.
     
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  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    yes and yes.

    what if vdumb's bev adventure doesn't pan out? what if bev's aren't ready for prime time soon enough?
    what if they invest so much they sink the company?

    these are all questions that cannot be answered today.
     
  4. Prashanta

    Prashanta Active Member

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    It doesn't make any sense to put 60 miles of electric range on a mid-range PHEV. You can build a 250-mile pure EV for the same cost, so why not do that instead? PHEVs shine in the 25-40 mile arena. Frankly, even though 20-mile PHEVs have been derided, they offer practical ways to reduce CO2 emissions by 50% for a good chunk of the population.
     
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  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    My 2014 BMW i3-REx has an 18.6 kWh battery (now 18.2 kWh.) The EV range is 72 miles, 3.9 mi/kWh. New, $53k.

    My 2019 Std. Rng. Plus Model 3 has 240 mile EV range on a ~55 kWh battery, 4.3 mi/kWh. New, $41k.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #65 bwilson4web, Jan 29, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2020
  6. I'mJp

    I'mJp Senior Member

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    Has anyone seen pictures of the Rav4 prime battery pack ?
    Is it just 2 Prius prime packs shoved under the deck or is there "an improvement".?

    jp
     
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  7. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Well, it gets some direct cooling from the A/C circuit. It is packaged much better than in the Prime. Sounds like there is some cargo space loss, but better than what old Camry hybrids lost to the battery in the trunk.
     
  8. Felt

    Felt Senior Member

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    Trollbait and bisco - Felt here, it's been a while.
    I have become interested in the RAV4 Prime to be available this summer. IF the hybrid/EV system is like the Prius Prime .... is the EV battery separate from the hybrid battery? Does/can the MG charge the EV battery?

    Toyota maintains the hybrid battery SOC between 20 and 80%. Is that also true with the EV battery? The 39 mile estimated EV range .... is that with a 80% charged EV battery?
     
    #68 Felt, Feb 4, 2020
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 4, 2020
  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The PP has just one battery. I don't see any advantage in going with two separate ones for the RavP.
     
  10. CharlesH

    CharlesH CA HOV Decal #5 on former PiP

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    There is only one battery, which the software manages either in hybrid or EV mode. (OK, there is also a small 12V battery for accessories and such, but it is not involved in moving the car) The charge state of the battery ranges from around 20% to around 80%. In general, the only way to get much more than 20% is by plugging it it.There is a way to get the gasoline engine to charge up the battery, but that is not the "normal" operation. You can also go down a long hill/mountain to add charge by regeneration. When in hybrid (HV) mode, the gasoline engine is used to maintain the charge in a relatively small range.
     
    #70 CharlesH, Feb 4, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2020
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  11. Ming C

    Ming C New Member

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    To respond to the OP, this is now making my decision to jump into a 2020 Prius Prime much more difficulty.

    To give a quick background, wife and I are ready to upgrade from our 2006 Acura TL (that recently needed a rebuilt transmission) and we have been very intrigued by the Prius Prime...due to its EV range of 25mi AND with the traditional gas-tank that gets over 600mi for when longer-drives are needed. So it's a perfect balance of low cost EV for putting around town AND flexibility of being able to get 133MPGe with a very long range when needed.

    I've looked at the Volt with the higher EV range but am nervous about GM reliability and longevity.

    The Rav4 Prime has me intrigued with its almost 40mi EV range and the increased versatility in a crossover platform (higher seating, higher load floor and larger cargo space and bit roomier interior) but it does suffer in efficiency with the MPGe down into the 90s.

    Now with this rumor of a possibly improved 2021/2022 Prius Prime...should we wait until the new PP comes out?

    The main issue is the lesser cargo space in the prius prime and I wish the prime had a bit more EV range...closer to 40mi-50mi instead of just 25 or so.

    I can see how a re-design is needed to fully unlock this type of vehicle potential...in such a way where it does not intrude into the rear cargo space AND it could get even better EV range...while keeping the traditional hybrid ICE/gas tank for longer trips.

    I hate to finance basically 30k and then jump into another new car in 1-2 years when the better Prius Prime comes out....
     
  12. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Welcome Ming!

    Well, 600 miles would be running it dry. 500 miles is a more realistic distance on a long road trip. Around town, I'm well over 2,200 miles on this tanks so far.

    That 133MPGe is for EV mode.

    Not to mention that you'd have to get a used Volt since they quit making them.

    Neither has been a problem for me. I though the higher deck would hinder me, but it really hasn't. I just can't cover up as much stuff with the cargo cover. As for EV range, it's enough for me to be around 90% EV in non-vacation driving.

    No way should a Prime cost that much. But financing is still a humongous waste of money. Save your money and then pay cash. Let compound interest work for you instead of against you.

    As for when to buy, I'd buy when I'm ready. Waiting for future improvements would lead to never getting another car because there will always be some neat new feature coming up next year.
     
  13. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Interesting. That's what my wife traded in for her Prime. She bought her TL used, with a replaced transmission. I think the previous owner didn't know how to drive with a clutch. She also had to have it rebuilt after the back corner got struck by a careless driver. It made a mess of the navigation system, which was stored in the trunk. Anywho, she drives a Prime now and loves it.

    There will inevitably be a new Prius Prime in the next few years that will be a huge step forward with the technology. I have been upgrading with each new generation of Prius for 20 years now. Toyota's investment toward electrification advancement is. We see hints as parts of what is to come from what gets rolled out with their other hybrids. Ultimately though, Prius has been a great platform for the greenest of us. And as the "car" slowly vanishes from this market, it makes sense to see Prius evolve into a strong choice for those not interested in something that resembles a truck.

    As for your choice of when to purchase, how long do you intend to keep this Prius? There is always something better on the way. That's how new technology works, especially in an emerging market. To take advantage of whatever the next-gen Prius Prime offers, you should consider charger setup. Recharging with an ordinary 120-volt outlet should work fine, but the charging standard at that point will almost certainly be a speed step up from 3.6 to 7.2 kW. If you don't ever intend to provide a dedicated 40-amp line for a charger, a feature of the new tech would be missed. Supplying electricity faster isn't necessary, but that is what you'd be paying for as part of the next-gen offering.

    It goes without saying (though I will), that EV range (efficiency/capacity) will increase and the battery will become more robust. That's just another natural step forward with the progression of any maturing plug-in technology.

    This generation of Prius Prime has been a wonderful choice for us. We have two. Long highway trips to visit family and the countless drives to grandpa's stuffing the cargo area in preparation to sell his house has proven worth of the technology. Our commutes are entirely electric too, since we can recharge at work. I'm hoping to upgrade to the next-gen Prius yet again. But in the meantime, I'm thoroughly enjoying the EV driving experience this generation provides.

    I hope my ramblings helped. Good luck with your decision.
     
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  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The first Volt had good reliability, and the second was nearing the end of its life when cancelled, so should have any issues fixed. There is even some new ones still available according to Cars.com.

    If the Volt isn't a consideration, I say wait at least a year. The Prius Prime came out as a US 2017MY, and just had a refresh. I wouldn't expect any big changes until 2022MY, but there might be enough details out about it to decide on whether it is worth the wait. I expect a range boost to some degree when they repackage the battery.

    IIRC, the Rav4 Prime will be a 2021MY. Waiting gives a chance to avoid the first year issues, if that is your choice.
     
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  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    I am also considering improved prime, rav4 phev and escape phev.

    Not much to go on yet though, patience is key
     
  16. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    I have owned first-year of each generation Prius offered here. That's four distinct technology leaps forward. Waiting until the second wouldn't have served any purpose. History proved that old-school mentality didn't achieve anything.
     
  17. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Except for that early parking brake recall. :rolleyes: Plus one for an airbag in the first year.
    Then the Prime's release being delayed. Prime Delayed because.....the Hatch! | PriusChat

    Every car has a chance to have an issue, and that chance is higher for first model years.
     
  18. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    except you don't keep them that long, like me. 2010 was the worst of the worst, if you kept it long enough. on the whole, not every single car.
     
  19. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Again with the vague statements. My best friend bought my 2010 and is still driving it. Not a big deal.
     
  20. lextoy

    lextoy Active Member

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    which car to get depends on your usage. i have a 25 mile round trip commute every day. so the 30 mile range is excellent even in winter.
    keep in mind with fed and state incentives, you can get a prime premium, the mid level, for under 21k all in tax tag etc.
    im not interested in the rav with more range because it will take twice as long to charge and cost significantly more.
    i dont have kids, its only ever me in the car, or with wife. but people have said back seat is comfy. trunk space?? not that important to me. this is my commuter car 99 percent of the time. i dont think the next gen primes will be 40+ EV range. once the fed incentive dries up. the cost to own an econo box EV like the prime will be a major consideration. as an entry level EV its perfect, low cost, very efficient, and hybrid makes it totally usable for what its good at, mostly local trips and the occasional long distance.
     
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