2021 RAV4 Prime Wishlist

Discussion in 'Toyota Hybrids and EVs' started by drash, Jan 17, 2020.

  1. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    Thought I’d start a RAV4 Prime wishlist like we had for the Prius Prime a while back and Prius Prime upgrade. I’m basing it on the obvious pluses the RAV4 Prime will have over the PP like an optional sun roof, AWD-i, optional heated rear passenger seats, optional power front passenger seat, optional memory driver’s seat, optional digital rear-view mirror, optional heated and ventilated front seats:

    1) Flat Rear Cargo space - this is probably (one of) the biggest peeves about the Prius Prime (PP). The rear cargo space in the PP is raised by about 3 inches so it looses functionality about height of storage.

    2) 6.6 kW charger for L2, maybe even 7+ kW. - I mean we’re talking a 17+kWh battery here.

    3) Spare tire - at least a compact spare, because if you’re offering a trail mode nobody wants to be stranded in the middle of nowhere.

    4) same size gas tank as the RAV4 Hybrid - might be able to get the 600+ mile range.

    5) Towing please - I’ll even take the same as the RAV4 Hybrid, 1,750 lbs (794 kg). How about a special EV Auto mode with towing that kicks on the engine at much lower power requirements when towing or even making the power curve adjustable?

    6) How about an indicator (or text) where it would display the maximum HP for the selected mode? - there will be an awful lot of people assume you’ll get the 302 HP in EV or 302 HP when the battery is empty (especially those genius YouTubers).

    7) optional DCFC - Could we at least offer to get CCS Combo for the US? It would be nice while on a 15-20 minute bathroom break we could fill up the battery.

    8) Bring back the remote options left out of the 2020 PP.


    Unsupervised!
     
  2. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

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    How about addressing some of these from my '19 Rav4h.

    1. My wife finds the passenger seat uncomfortable compared to her 2011 Avalon (which I dislike). She has a bad back. Why on a $40k+ car can't the passenger seat have the same adjust-ability as the drivers seat? (The plug-in 2020 has a power passenger seat.) Take a long test drive and listen to the passenger.

    2. It doesn't have as much rear seat legroom as my 6'5" son would like or as the Prius v had. A trade-off for more front seat legroom and cargo space.

    3. You have to learn how to kick under the bumper and wait for the cargo hatch to open. It took me a dozen tries before I had the feel. I was waving my foot instead of kicking upward. Now I get it 100% of the time. Used it twice today, two hands full either loading or unloading and it makes things easy.

    4. I miss the instantaneous readout the Prius had of MPG which served to keep the weight of my right foot under control. Yes I can select that sort of display on the center display of the "dials" in front of the steering wheel when in digital display mode. But that means I loose the info from another display I like better. I consider the left hand and right hand dials on the RAv4h to be a total waste of valuable space. You could display the same things in half the space with all data digital and in larger typeface. Make it all optionally digital.

    5. It seems to me that the instruction book should at least have an instruction on how to turn off the GPS-driven map guidance. And the screen menus should have a stop guidance function. My wife liked the "stop guidance" menu item on my Prius v and her Avalon. Now I have to voice a "shut the heck up" commend or dial down the volume and remember to dial it up when I next use it. Or use the "delete destination" button which doesn't always show.

    6. Lane Keeping Assist seems to move the car from side to side when going around a turn within the lane markings instead of keeping a constant position within the lane. It also makes the steering wheel seem heavy. Feels to me like it keeps the car too far to the left in the lane too. I wonder if that is adjustable. But boy is it nice on long straight Interstate runs.

    7. The cargo loading height is sometimes helpful and sometimes not depending on the weight of the object being loaded. Sure beats a sedan but not a wagon.

    8. The location of the front inside door handles seem too far forward.

    9. The arm rest on the front doors seem too far from the seats to allow an arm to rest comfortably there. Too low too. The center arm rest works.

    10. My car is Blizzard Pearl white and the "Kamm effect" (the way the air flows over the car and then comes back against the rear of the car) means the rear of the car is always covered with black road dust that shows. My white Prius v wagon had the same dirty backside. I RainX the windows religiously.

    11. The Rav4 is so tall it makes it hard for this 6' guy to hand wash the top of the car. I can barely reach the top center of the windshield.

    12. Many '19-'20 Rav4 hybrids are having trouble during a gas fill-up filling the tank to the top. When the pump clicks and shuts off the nozzle, some owners report that the fill is perhaps 1 to 2 gallons short of a true and complete fill. Doesn't affect miles per gallon. Just means you gas up more often than if the tank were completely full . Toyota is aware of the problem. I asked my local dealer to record it on a work order but not to do anything until there is a proven fix. When I picked up my car, the service advisor said that funny enough he had had a second Rav4h owner in just after me with the same complaint. Some owners are so upset over this they are pursuing a buyback. To me, that seems overreaction. I'm still happy as an extra pump squeeze always gets me close enough. (Be careful not to overfill as you can contaminate the gas fumes pollution control system and that will produce a Check Engine Light and be $$$ to fix and you will pay for it.) When I think back, I have only had the problem 15% of the time, there were many more fills where my needle was on the F mark or above it. Just fill at the slowest speed is my secret and pump an extra 1 click. Many find the Distance To Empty (DTE) display to be erratic because of the incomplete fill and the way it is calculated based on you most recent drive MPG. And for some the amount of fuel when reading empty does not match the published specifications.

    13. The pictographs above the HVAC buttons are very hard to read if you have sunglasses on. They are lit at night with the headlights on.

    14. Door sill protectors are not included to protect the painted sills. The ones Toyota offers are only for the horizontal flat surface and don't lap over the painted lip on the side. I worry about my foot dragging over that painted surface as I get into the car and rotate into the seat.

    15. I liked the two "glove compartments" on the v. I used one for documentation storage and the upper one for convenience items. The shelf the Rav4 provides allows small items to be placed on the shelf but they aren't hidden and the space is much smaller. The Rav4's glove compartment stores little more than the manuals.

    16. The number of front seat drink holders. In the v I had three, one for my water, one for my wife's coffee/tea and one for her water. Worked really well on long trips. The Rav4 has only two and neither is as large as the one in the v. Neither is as easily used as they are so much lower than the center armrest and right up next to it. Shirt or medium cups don't fall readily to hand when not looking.

    17. I first preferred a steering wheel stalk driven cruise control on/off/set/resume functions to the steering wheel buttons on the Rav4. One, they are standard across many brands and familiar. Two, they are tactile and don't require a quick glance down to make sure you are pressing the right button. I'm now used to the on wheel buttons and understand why, with so many options relating to cruise, they choose the design they did. But they still require concentration and a look away from the road even after using them for thousands of cruise control miles. You get used to them.

    18. I can't say I like the location of the gas filler flap opening button. I'd just as soon get out of the car and reach down to a clearly visible flap opening lever by the side of the seat. You get used to it.

    19. I liked the v's larger under the cargo floor storage areas better than the Rav4's smaller area around the spare tire. In it I store an old shower curtain for when I have to kneel and change a tire, a COSTCO freezer bag for bringing home Ice Cream and several reusable grocery bags. In the v, I'd also had several golf clubs for when I wanted to stop at a driving range. And a big umbrella. Plus the over cargo-area cover.

    20. Why do they put the radio seek button so far from the driver's side? When I am traveling through a rural radio wasteland, I want to see what stations there are and the seek button is barely reachable. Besides, it is on my passenger's side which means she can seek her station!

    21. The lower part of the inside of the door is matte black plastic. It scuffs when your foot hits it getting in and out. I'd prefer it be carpeted and carpet absorbs sound.

    22. On September 7, 2019 my wife received a Customer Support Program letter relating to Blizzard White and Super White paint peeling from long term sun exposure. It was addressed to my wife who is the primary owner of a Kentucky built 2011 Avalon. They are not yet ready for any repair program but do talk of documenting any problems or repairs. We have owned a 2011 Avalon, 2012 Prius v and a 2019 Rav4h all white. My son who parks in the sun at work has a white Prius hatchback. We have had no paint problems with any of them.

    23. I don't like that it is not made in the USA. A Georgetown, KY plant started making them January 8, 2020.

    24. Puncture a tire and the bill may come to $293 like mine. First tire failure in 20 years so tire insurance wasn't a good option

    24. Warning! Many dealers deliver the car with the tire pressure set to the 50 PSI that is used for shipping to reduce sway while being transported. This is supposed to be reduced by the dealer as part of the delivery prep process. Get your dealer to show you the pressure in at least one tire before you drive it away.

    25. That the TPMS (Tire Pressure Monitoring System) can only be reset after a tire change by the dealer's link to the Toyota maintenance computers (unless you are a true geek and have hardware and software that can program the ECU). Even if the original pressure sensors are being used. This makes adding a set of mounted snow tires from someplace like TireRack an expensive proposition. So ask for a guarantee that the tire changer can reset the TPMS or have the dealer do the mounting. Once done, this knowing about both sets of tires by the ECU should be good for the battery life of 8-10 years and switching between tire sets becomes trivial and you can do it in your driveway.

    26. That the TPMS warning light is a dim orange and not very visible with sun glasses.

    27. That the TPMS system doesn't have an option or menu-item to show each tire's PSI despite having the ECU having the data. Darn it, show me which tire is the problem. The by-tire pressures are available on the "Toyota" phone app for 2019 models, there is no app for 2020 models.

    28. No folding outside mirrors.

    29. No pocket on the back of the driver's seat. Cheap. My v had one.

    30, It is hard to attach the rear seat belt buckles (all of them) into the rear belt sockets. If they made the sockets a little higher and a little more rigid like the front seat ones then my grandkids and my older friends will have an easier time buckling up.

    31. That the plug-in hybrid version isn't available until mid 2020 at best in the US. More powerful, better MPG. Probably more $$ too. I would have bought one.

    32. Road and tire noise. Sound deadening under the hood but not in the doors or trunk area. Online instructions are available to show you how to add sound deadening material.

    33. That some areas seem to be having trouble getting cars to sell. Or getting specific configurations. This may get better as supply improves and the Kentucky plan comes online in early 2020.

    34. That the switches that control the sunroof and the overhead lights are so close together and are not backlit so they are difficult to distinguish from one another, Imagine mistakenly opening the sunroof in the rain while fumbling for the overhead light.

    35. That Android Auto wasn't supported until the 2020 model year. AppleCar Play was.

    36. That the switches for the window glass, door locks, and mirror adjust on the driver's side armrest aren't back-lit. Neither are the ones on the passenger side and the rear doors. Cheap. A 2019's Corolla's switches on the driver's armrest are backlit and can be adapted to fit and apparently work perfectly.
     
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  3. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    If we get DCFC, it will be CHAdeMO.
    With the reduction in cargo space, I don't expect the floor to be flat with the seats down.
     
  4. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    Not expecting DCFC, just a wish. If they offer it for us they’ll offer it for Europe as well which requires CCS Combo Type 2 (yes even Tesla). Arguably, the RAV4 Plug-in Hybrid will be a big seller in the European market so they would save money by making this CCS as they’ll have to do for the Lexus UX300e.

    The reduction is about 2 cu ft between the RAV4 Hybrid and PHV. Not the 8 cu ft. difference between the Gen 4 Prius and the PP even though the PP is 3 in. longer. Since the battery is under the floor, I would expect everything to be raised about the same including seat height. I fully expect the rear cargo area floor to be level with the seats down but I’m hedging my bets. Also I cheated and looked at the interior rear seats of both vehicles. Both seat cushions appear to be the same level from the armrest on the door, but the front part of the rear seat on the Prime seems much higher. Might be lighting though. Weird since the battery pack on the Hybrid is under the seat cushion.


    Unsupervised!
     
  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    That would make sense, but Toyota was the first to join the CHAdeMO association after the founding members. Subaru is a founder, along with Nissan and Mitsubishi, and both of those use CHAdeMO in the US.

    That 8 cu.ft. difference is with a Prius without a spare; specifically, the L Eco. Those trims without it have a sunken cargo floor that isn't level with the seats when down. Trims with the spare have a floor level with the seat backs and hatch opening. The space difference between them and the Prime is about 3 cu.ft. The press release for the Rav4 Prime stated the battery doesn't intrude into the cabin area.
     
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  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    makeit a foot longer for more hatch space
     
  7. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 'Orrible Oracle

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    These SHOULD be standard equipment. And for chrisake, they don't have to be lit, they're just protection.

    Have no idea what you're talking about. Probably a case of "if you have to ask", but just the once: what does that even mean?
     
  8. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    DCFC = direct current fast charge
    What was once called Level 3 charging, but that term no longer has a technical meaning in the SAE.
    CHAdeMO is the Japanese standard; the Leaf has it.
     
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  9. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    Head Up Display - crazy that it's not available on any RAV4. After having it for 3½ yrs on PRIUS, I'd miss it dearly.

    [Re "23. I don't like that it is not made in the USA." - don't forget that this is a global platform. I can understand that US people might like that - but the rest of the world, not so much.
     
  10. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    Actually the RAV4 PHV will have a color Heads Up Display according to the press release on the European site. But you’re right, once you have it it’s the first thing you notice missing on other cars. I’d miss it as well.


    iPad ? Pro
     
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  11. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    Just watched a walk around of the RAV4 Prime. Yep, flat floor space when the seats are folded. Sweet.


    iPad ? Pro
     
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  12. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

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    I'm all for local assembly to support local jobs so locals have a healthy economy so they can buy locally produced cars. Not just for one country. I just happen to be a Yank. My wife's Avalon happened to be the most US content car when it was built. 86%. Not the reason she wanted it but a bonus. My v was Japan built.

    BTW, we came to Australia two weeks after 9/11 and you all were so kind and supportive of us (And darn grateful for our tourist $s to be truthful.) But really everywhere we went it was "we're with ya mate". So over the last few months, back at ya. We wish you health and safety.
     
    #12 mikefocke, Jan 18, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2020
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  13. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Note that TMMK (Georgetown, Kentucky factory) is the second factory outside of Japan to build Lexus vehicles so I trust any vehicle built from that factory. (I prefer Japanese built myself but I will accept vehicles from Ontario or Kentucky for their quality and workmanship). Those workers should be very proud of their accomplishments.
     
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  14. John321

    John321 Active Member

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    I think your confidence in the Kentucky Plant is well placed

    "JD Power Plant Quality Awards: Toyota Motor Manufacturing, Cambridge North, Ontario, Canada (Corolla line) received the "Gold" JD Power Plant Award for Initial Quality, along with Toyota Motor Manufacturing, Kentucky (Lexus ES line), representing TMMK's 14th JD Power Plant Quality Award. Additionally, Toyota Motor Manufacturing, Cambridge South, Ontario, Canada, (Lexus RX line) received a "Bronze" JD Power Plant Award as well as Toyota Motor Manufacturing, Indiana, for its Highlander and Sequoia line."

    Article detailing how almost 2 million vehicles were built in North America in 2018 by Toyota
    Toyota Production in North America Nearly 2 Million in 2018

    Another article detailing some of Toyota Motor Manufacturing of Kentucky awards history
    Toyota Plant Earns Initial Quality Award

    TMMK has recently undergone a major Plant upgrade with a sizable investment for refurbishment and new ultra modern technology. They have also received some new models to manufacture. This Toyota powerhouse for production is well positioned for the future.
     
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  15. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Thanks for doing the research :)
     
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  16. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    If you go to PlugShare - Find Electric Vehicle Charging Locations Near You there will be all the possible EVSE plugs in North America.

    Most PHEV Prius use J-1772. For faster charging , CCS/SAE and CHAdeMO, are European and Japanese 'standards'.

    NEMA 14-50 and Wall (NEMA 5-15) are not really EVSE plugs, they are common plugs to plug your EVSE cable into.
     
    #16 JimboPalmer, Jan 20, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
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