2023 Prius Prime EV Range

Discussion in 'Prime Fuel Economy & EV Range' started by 00crashtest, May 16, 2021.

?
  1. widely available Clarity PHEV

    1 vote(s)
    6.7%
  2. wait for 2023 Prius Prime

    14 vote(s)
    93.3%
  1. 00crashtest

    00crashtest New Member

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    I am planning to buy my first plug-in hybrid next year. 35 miles will be sufficient for me to do all regular driving in EV mode only, save for the ocassional trip to outside of the metropolitan area. I am deciding between the next generation Prius Prime, of which the current generation only has an EPA-rated electric range of 25 miles, and the Honda Clarity Plug-In Hybrid, which has an EPA-rated electric range of 47 miles. I want all regular trips within the metropolitan area to be electric only. I live in Sacramento, where the majority (73%) of the electricity comes from carbon-free sources as of the lastest 2019 power content label. SMUD has planned to go carbon-neutral by 2030. So, whether or not I'm able to make all regular trips with electricity only will have a drastic impact on my GHG emissions.

    What all-electric range will the next generation Toyota Prius Prime (presumably MY2023) have? Will it have at least 38 miles of electric range on the EPA test cycle? During next year, should I buy the current generation Clarity Plug-In Hybrid immediately or wait a few months for the next generation Prius Prime?
     
  2. PiPLosAngeles

    PiPLosAngeles Senior Member

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    Even the EPA rated range of 25 miles may work. The nature of your drive and driving style can change that dramatically. On a relatively level highway I can get behind a truck and do 60-65 and average around 6 miles/kWh, which translates to around 35 miles range on the highway. If I drive 70 the range drops dramatically.

    My overall average on all routes is around 5.5 miles/kWh (~33 miles per charge if no regen), but I've spent years training myself just how to drive the car to achieve that. Someone unfamiliar with efficiently driving an electric car may not be able to achieve that at first. The inclination at first is to think, "Forget that! I'm not driving 60 just to get a little more range." However, even a 15-mile drive on the highway takes 15 minutes at 60 and 13 minutes at 70. Is that 2 minutes really worth dropping your mpg or miles/kWh by 50% or more? To me it isn't unless there's some kind of emergency. The most difficult part for me is city driving where other drivers actively interfere with coasting to red lights to avoid stopping, etc.
     
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  3. dbstoo

    dbstoo Active Member

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    You would have to do the math on several fronts. First you'd have to really analyze your driving. Then you'd have to analyze the carbon footprint that goes into making each car,. Then you'd have to do the same for the efficiency of each car, including your current ride.

    Only then will you have enough data to decide if driving your old car will pollute more than selling that car (so it can continue to pollute) so that you can get one car or the other sooner.
     
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  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    if your 20 isn't cutting it, it is unlikely the 23 will. but you'll know before deciding.
    i don't see how toyota can add more battery efficiently at price point.
    have you looked at rav4 prime?
    toy's next step may be bev's
     
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  5. PiPLosAngeles

    PiPLosAngeles Senior Member

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    Nissan and Chevy are selling their BEVs at similar or even lower price points than the Prius Prime and their batteries are 8 times larger than the Prius. Granted they are lesser quality, but there's plenty of room (economically) for Toyota to at least double the size of the Prime battery in the current price range.
     
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  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    only toyota can determine how much room is enough room. of course, it's based on supply, demand, and CARB.
    jmo, i don't think you're going to see a larger battery. that's why they developed prime rav 4, a much more popular form factor at a much higher price.

    nissan and gm do not make plug in hybrids
     
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  7. PiPLosAngeles

    PiPLosAngeles Senior Member

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    It'll be interesting to see what Toyota does now that California has booted the Prius Prime from the EV incentive program for having too small of a battery.
     
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  8. 00crashtest

    00crashtest New Member

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    I did do the math. I will keep my current car, but my parents will be returning from out of town and need a car, so it is for them actually.

    I actually don't have a 2020 Prius Prime. I only added it because I needed to join the forum.

    The reason why I'm not looking at a pure EV yet is because I like the convenience of quick fillups with gasoline. Until Toyota releases their solid-state battery, the new 900kW charging standard is developed, and prices come down to inflation-adjusted values of the Prius Prime, I will only be looking at plug-in hybrids.

    Yep, I actually like the RAV4 Prime. Too bad it is out of my price point and has poor efficiency in EV mode due to poor aerodynamics.
     
    #8 00crashtest, May 16, 2021
    Last edited by a moderator: May 16, 2021
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  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    good point. i was not aware. supply, demand and CARB :D
     
  10. dbstoo

    dbstoo Active Member

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    Ok, since you are not a PHEV user, let me say this about the Prime. I can drive it about 150 miles or so per day locally on electricity alone. All I have to do is break the errands into 25 mile round trips, and charge when I get home. About 2 hours with a level 2 charger plugged into a simple 20 amp 220V outlet will bring the battery to full, and there's another 25 to 30 miles.

    As an example; It's 10 miles to the place I used to work. I can drive there to drop off my retirement papers, then return home on one charge from last night. I have 5 miles range left, so I plug it in while watching TV. It's back on 100% in less than 2 hours. Then I go to the store (3 miles round trip) and the bowling alley (7 miles RT). When I park at the bowling alley I can use the free 120V outlet for my charger. By the time I finish rolling trash, the car shows 20 miles of range. I get home with 16 miles of range remaining. The battery fills in less than an hour while I eat lunch.

    And that's how it works for those of us who do NOT have a MONSTROUS commute. If you allow occasional use of gas, you can still do most of your driving on battery with only a few miles on gas even when driving occasionally to further destinations.
     
    #10 dbstoo, May 17, 2021
    Last edited: May 17, 2021
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  11. 00crashtest

    00crashtest New Member

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    Good point, but I have to travel on 33-mile continual drives about once a week, and won't be willing to compromise safety by drafting behind a semi.
     
  12. PiPLosAngeles

    PiPLosAngeles Senior Member

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    My normal commute situation is about as close to worst-case scenario as it can get for a PHEV driver. It's much further than the EV range the Prime is capable of and there is nowhere within a mile to charge, so charging at work isn't possible (ironic given that one might imagine that a place like downtown Los Angeles would not be that way). Even under those conditions I average well over 100 gasoline mpg. Since I haven't been doing my normal commute for a year I've been doing >85% EV driving, which is good.
     
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  13. PiPLosAngeles

    PiPLosAngeles Senior Member

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    You don't need to draft them, that's too dangerous. I just drive behind them so people are less angry about my driving 60. It is not uncommon around here to be the focus of road rage even when you're driving 75 in the slow lane.
     
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  14. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

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    Your info says you have a 2020 Prime?

    Got it, I think.
     
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  15. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    I looked into getting Clarity as our second car in addition to PP, but in the end, I did not get it. The problem of Clarity is that even though it has a longer EV range, the efficiency is not as good as PP. In our local, driving EV mode is more expensive than driving on gasoline HV mode. Also, I had to have a hatchback. Even though the trunk space is bigger for Clarity than the current model of PP, a sedan with a trunk is much less utility than a hatchback. For 2023 PP, I have a feeling that it will not increase the EV range much. Toyota is gearing up to introduce brand new BEVs and PHEV line-up. I suspect if they keep the Prius brand, all will be PHEV just like the current Prius PRIME with a somewhat limited EV range.
     
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  16. PiPLosAngeles

    PiPLosAngeles Senior Member

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    My previous experience with two Honda vehicles and their dealerships is the reason I wouldn't buy a Honda even if it had a $15,000 rebate.
     
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  17. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    I don't have much brand royalty. I would buy any make and model with value, but I tend to be more biased toward Japanese cars over other foreign and domestic brands. Our local Honda dealer is also Toyota and Nissan dealer as well as GM and Ford and most other car manufacture, so there is not much to compare. For a long-term daily driver, I have not had a vehicle more reliable than Civic. And for the cheapest cost to operate, my Civic Hybrid actually won over Prius Gen3. If Honda makes Civic Hatch in BEV or PHEV, I would put it on my shortlist, but I don't think it is going to happen.
     
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  18. PiPLosAngeles

    PiPLosAngeles Senior Member

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    Weird. We had a 2010 Civic and a 2010 Accord, both of which had numerous mechanical and other issues, including being stranded by a dead battery with a 10-month old car, A/C compressor failure, faulty disk brake calipers, faulty fuel system sensor, and faulty steering. I've never experienced any such thing with any Toyota I've ever owned.
     
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  19. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    As far as the cost is concerned, the most expensive to operate car I have ever owned was the 2005 Toyota Sienna LE AWD. After keeping it for 12 years, its total cost (repair, maintenance, and gas) was at least 6 times higher than my 1998 Civic which was also kept 12 years (bought used so it was 16 years old when sold) until literally, parts fell off, or 4 times higher than 2008 HCH which was kept only 6+ years when it was totaled on accident. To be fair, I never had mechanical issues with Prius (Gen3 or PP), but I kept them for less than 3 years. Of all the cars I have owned, there aren't too many cars which I kept longer than 10 years or lasted that long even if I wanted to keep it that long.
     
  20. 00crashtest

    00crashtest New Member

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    Biased towards Japanese? More like Japanese vehicles are infinitely better. Say, for example, the Japanese car has zero problems for the first 200,000 miles, and the American cars have several problems right off the line. That means the Japanese car is infinitely more reliable (because you can't divide by zero) and even saying the Japanese car is a googolplex times better is a huge understatement.
     
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