Featured 2023 Prius spy shot

In contrast to our BMW i3-REx with a hard EV mode, perhaps our 2017 Prime was a PHEV lemon. Trading it in for our 2019 Model 3 made EV mode permanent.

Bob Wilson

 

Here's a max brightness picture of teaser from bestcarweb.jp. Yep normal door handle. Doors look huge. Seems to be contradictory to the Spyder7 pics which shows the rear wheels much more toward the rear and a larger overhang in the front. But could be off based on lighting and scale.

 

Ok further info is leaked out of Japan. This time creative311.com has 3 articles relating to different talking points. The first:
https://creative311.com/?p=148321
Prius (not Prime):
There will be 2 engine selections for the HEV but still one for the PHV:

• 1.8L 2WD/E-Four
• 2.0L 2WD/E-Four

The body dimensions are still the same as other preliminary info.
Length = 4,600mm (181.1 inches) x Width = 1,780mm (70.1 inches) x 1,420mm (55.9 inches)
Wheelbase: 2,750mm (108.3 inches)
Ground Clearance: 145mm (5.7 inches)

Current 2022 Prius:
Length = 4,540mm (178.8 inches) x Width = 1,760mm (69.3 inches) x 1,470mm (57.9 inches)
Wheelbase: 2,700mm (106.3 inches)
Ground Clearance: 130mm (5.1 inches)

The next article lists power and fuel economy:
https://creative311.com/?p=148470

1.8L HEV

• Engine output: 98ps (97hp, 72kW)
• MG2 output: 95ps (94hp, 71kW)
• WLTC Combined 2WD: 32km/L (75mpg, 3.13L/100km)
• Weight: 1,360kg (2,998lbs)

2.0L HEV

• Engine output: 152ps (150hp, 112kW)
• MG2 output: 113ps (111.5hp, 83kW), MGR output: 41ps (40hp, 30kW)
• WLTC Combined 2WD: 28.6km/L (67mpg, 3.5L/100km)
• WLTC 1,430kg (3,153lbs)

Surprisingly they indicated the 2.0L HEV will have 19" wheels. They even listed the size: 195/50R19. Sure it will. The 1.8L will come standard with 17" wheels (195/60R17). It will be built on an improved version of TNGA-C. So it looks to be longer, wider, lighter but shorter than the current Prius and still retain its lift back. They also indicated something about a panoramic roof. Release looks to be around January 10, 2023 time frame.

Current 2022 Prius
1.8L HEV

• Engine output: 98ps (97hp, 72kW)
• MG2 output: 72ps (71hp, 53kW), AWD-i MGR: 7ps (7hp, 5kW)
• WLTC Combined 2WD: 32.1km/L (75.5mpg, 3.12L/100km), EPA Combined 2WD: 56mpg (23.8 km/L, 4.2 L/100km)
• Weight: 1,365kg (3,010lbs)

I compared the Lithium battery equipped current Prius (L Eco), because all the new Prius will be Lithium based as well. They also don't have AWD figures or AWD MGR for the 1.8L nor do they list current combined power for either engine option.

Prius Prime:
PHV is still listed with the 2.0L 2WD only. This makes it to be the only "Prime" that doesn't come with E-Four. It also won't be released until March 15th, 2023. Still no idea if it will be the same design as the Prius HEV or different but it only comes with a 2.0L FWD so here are the specs:

2023 Prius PHV (Prime)
WLTC Combined 2WD: 23.0km/L (54mpg, 4.4L/100km)
WLTC AER: 75km (46 miles)

Current 2022 Prius PHV (Prime)
WLTC Combined 2WD: 30.3km/L (71mpg, 3.3L/100km), EPA Combined: 54 mpg (23km/L, 4.4 L/100km)
WLTC AER: 60 km (37 miles), EPA AER: 40km (25 miles)

The Prius Prime part is in direct conflict with bestcarweb.jp which claims 100km AER. If this comes true it looks like the Prime may be about 34 miles AER EPA and take a substantial hit on gas mileage, like Corolla Cross Hybrid gas mileage of 38mpg or so. The article does say that these specs are still up in the air. They have cross guessed Prius Prime specs with other platforms before so I wouldn't take this to heart or Toyota may be still tweaking battery sizes with engine sizes and we're getting that information. I've yet to see dimensions and/or weight like they have with the Prius HEV.

The 3rd article is more conjecture about it's future sales based on specs. They are concerned:
https://creative311.com/?p=148286

 

I don't want a bigger engine in my Prime, I want a smaller one!!!

There's basically no reason to have a large engine in a PHEV that has enough power to propel itself with the engine off. The engine is just there to provide average power over a long period (low power, high energy), not peak power.

I hope (but seriously doubt) that they choose to fix all the mistakes they made with the interior of the Prime and the G4 in general - no underfloor storage, loss of the double glove box, no storage on the dash for small items, and I desperately hope they permanently terminate that horrible "Softex" material, which stains, tears, delaminates, and doesn't breathe. I had to cover mine with cloth seat covers to make the car livable.

 

The 2023 Corolla has a 2 inch increase to wheels between the LE and higher trims; 16 to 18. The current Prius has a 15 to 17 increase. What ever the starting size for the new Prius, a 2 inch increase will have a big impact on the fuel economy of even the 1.8L

Currently, all the FWD Prii use Li-ion. The Eco's fuel economy rating is mostly from weight reduction. We might see the typical trim gen5 get the fuel miser gen4 EPA rating. That 7% to 8% is on the low end of past generation improvements, but still a notable one. With a more powerful rear motor, the FWD and AWD gap should be larger than the current one.

The WLTP procedure is not universal. There is different cycle sets for different car power ratings to better reflect a countries fleet; India uses the one for lower power cars vs what Europe uses. Then a country might not use all four of the test cycles. Japan uses the higher power one for Europe, but might skip the extra high cycle, because their highway speed limits are lower. Which could be another reason for the differences in reported AER between sources. Let's not forget that the EV modes could be tailored for different markets.

In the end, a hybrids efficiency will come down to how efficient the engine is, and Toyota has pretty much implemented all the easy improvements. More will come at more cost. Toyota isn't trying to make a XL1 with the Prius. The rule of diminishing returns was going to apply at some time. Keeping price increases in check are probably more important to the model's future sales than absolute best efficiency. The Elantra hybrid bests the Corolla, but for $1600 more, which could increase with same equipment.

Toyota already makes a 2L hybrid system. Putting it in the Prius isn't a big cost, and it could expand sales. The old CR-X had fuel miser and performance trims.

That would cost more. You are asking them to develop a drive train that would only be used for PHEVs, when they already have hybrid system that is plug and play. That would ditch one of the advantages of using a power-split system.

Current owners would likely prefer the 1.8L, but there isn't exactly a lot of them. Other EVs are probably considered the main competitors, and performance is likely an important draw for new buyers. The new Niro PHEV got a power boost.

 

The Prius should lead (it's in the name) - it should not be available in a hybrid version, just a PHEV and full EV version, and the PHEV version should employ the 1L engine they developed along side the current 1.8L version.

If you want more power, get it from the electric system.

 

Let the market decide?

 

What you want is a REx. Toyota doesn't have that. They could make one from their current system, but at a cost, as the control laws will be different. Even slight differences will require testing and validation. Then the engine/transaxle/motors assembly loses out on the cost savings of mass production. The electric motors needed for give the PP enough performance are already being mated to larger engines. There is also the risk that using a smaller engine could result in lower overall efficiency, as actual use leads to it being worked harder.

I'd like to see such a PHEV, but Toyota ain't going to do it. We are talking about a company that stuck with four speed autos for years after the market shifted, as it made more sense financially. look how long it took them to spread hybrid technology to other models. Maybe there will be a change with this rethinking they are doing, but that likely is more focused on BEVs.

It might have already done so, considering Prius sales. Then there the Corollas. The Prius as well rounded family car really only seems needed in markets where Toyota chooses not to sell the Corolla hatchback or wagon as a hybrid. For the markets with them, it looks like Toyota is making it sportier, and keeping the design polarizing. It might get a Buickify treatment, like the Venza.

As for the PHEV being 2L only, well, Toyota has chosen the power path with the Rav4 one, and many of the popular PHEVs in Europe are power hybrids. BEVs aren't the only competition.

 

To put this in context: the RAV4 PHV is 22.2 km/l WLTC. (Source: トヨタ RAV4 | 価格・グレード | トヨタ自動車WEBサイト)

I really don't believe this number.

 

It's nice how considerate these spy shot pararazzi are. They're taking pictures of an unreleased prototype car and distributing them across the internet, but of course they blur out the licence plate for, you know, privacy.

 

I think it's alright to take pictures of cars on public roads.

 

So what? We need to stop burning fossil fuels like 3 decades ago so we need to encourage people do just stop already.

Sadly, the "market" is too stupid to decide.

 

The WLTP for Europe is only slightly optimistic than EPA. It might be more so for Japan. Another factor what a PHEV number represents. I'm pretty sure the figure regularly quoted in European press is a combined one of EV and hybrid modes, like they did under NEDC. Which could be worse than the one the EPA briefly tested out, in that the EU figure ignores the electricity used. I don't know how Japan approaches it.

Then find a company that makes the PHEV you want. Toyota was betting on non-plug-in hydrogen FCEVs, and profiting off of ICE cars of the no plug type until their FCEVs started selling. They are even planning hydrogen ICEs in the near future. While it looks like they realized EVs are a bigger market than they planned, we'll have to wait until next year what they plan to address that. Any changes you'd like to see will take years.

 

We ve seen these hev drivetrains on 2023 Corolla, so nothing new there. On the phev version, implementing it only with the 2,0liter engine without a substantial battery size is so strange. It is not a power hybrid, not super fuel efficient, not a (ph)ev long range commuter, so whats the point of getting the prime version?

 

Using 80% less fossil fuel.

 

I was being sarcastic. Toyota is going to extreme lengths with the body camo trying to prevent people from seeing what the car really looks like. That's what they actually care about being published, not the license plate of some fleet vehicle registered to a corporate address.

 

Interesting updates...to be taken with a hefty grain of salt. At this point, I'm just waiting for the official announcement. However, if Toyota can't pull at least an incremental MPG increase out of their arse, then the Prius will have even more of an identity crisis than it already has. .

Edit - If it can be believed, nice to see the MG2 in the new Prius liftback getting a nice little bump. Might be favorable keep it running in 'electric only glide' mode for longer. For instance, on the approach to my house I have a bit of an incline...and our current Prius really struggles without the engine turning on. A stronger MG2 might help with that.

 

The limiting factor for climbing that incline won't be MG2's power, but rather the battery's power output, which is much lower than MG2.

 

Another reason to get a Prime - doesn't have that problem.