Featured 2023 Prius spy shot

Even with a price increase?

A hybrid and PHEV are planned. From the speculation and leaks posted here, it sounds like Toyota is taking the Prius more upscale to differentiate the hybrid more from the Corolla, and to help cover the larger battery cost for the PHEV.

The Crown at a release event had 0W-8 on the oil cap.

 

I'd be worried about finding 0W-8 to buy for my oil changes....0W-16 for my 2021 has been challenging so, now, when I see it in stock I'll grab as many as I can. I just searched Amazon and Orillys and Costco and they don't even have 0W-16, much less 0W-08.

 

You can get the 0w-16 on line cheaply and easily, search brought up walmart if you want to go to a store. The thinner viscosity 08 is used for drag racers and is almost 4x more expensive. I doubt it will be 08 in a prius, but if it is you may be forced to buy oil at the toyota dealer, which is a reason to buy a different hybrid.

 

Walmart now has the 0w-16; might even be available in Supertech. 0w-20 has been around long enough that getting it shouldn't be a problem, some times the selves are empty when I need it, and full when I don't.

Looks like at least one of the Crown engines will be using 0w8. When 0w16 engines first started showing up here, manufacturers in Japan were starting to put out 0w8 engines there.

I expect Toyota will allow 0w16 in a 0w8 engine in the beginning. They allowed 0w20 in 0w16 at first.

 

My guess and its only a guess is that if they label it as 0w-8 that is what they are recommending for best efficiency. I can't imagine Toyota designing a large volume car outside japan that can't run well on 0w-30. My guess is they will put in owners manuals that 0w-20 is allowed, but should be replaced at the next oil change.

I don't think the crown will be a high volume car, I'm sure Toyota is hoping the next gen Prius will recapture some of the sales it used to have.

 

You can ignore their oil spec, use 0W16, 0W20, or even get up into 5W20 or 30, I’d wager without any noticeable diff.

 

How often does thicker oil lead to an engine not running well?
Efficiency will go down. The oil pump may get overworked in the long term. But does it cause a change the car's owner/operator can tell?

The Crown is going to be Toyota's flagship model, which it is in Japan. The talk of a Crown-like interior for the Prius has me thinking Toyota is trying to position the Prius as something more upscale to the Corolla. The C-HR becoming a Prius variant mirrors what Toyota is doing with the Crown line up. A Buick alternative, like the Venza to the Rav4. Maybe being seen as more luxury might help demand. That didn't seem to be a big factor for the Prime vs. Prius though.

I can see an improved PHV/Prime helping sales, as plug ins in general are doing better. Its relationship to the US incentives will be a factor here. I don't see how the hybrid model can improve sales though. The peak sales for past generations were driven by fuel prices. Those can still drive sales, but now buyers have more hybrid choices from Toyota. Some of those are almost as good as the Prius in fuel economy, without the 'odd' design.

My guess is that the Prius hybrid is going to go the way of the Aqua. A model for the homeland that maximizes fuel efficiency. There, plug ins have more of a hurdle because of the electric infrastructure. The Prius there might also get a hydrogen engine. For the rest of the world, I think the hybrid will be phased out, with it being PHEV only.

 

Don't agree about PHEV-only....but we'll see.

One thing that Toyota *has* to do is up the efficiency ( i.e. - MPG ) of the Gen5 Prius by a noticeable amount. Otherwise, the Gen5 will be DOA. Let's hope the Prius remains Toyota's MPG showcase vehicle and they pull some tricks out of their hat.

 

Going to 0w to 5w will hurt cold weather starts, I don't think anyone should do that unless they live in hot climates and won't be starting when engine is very cold. The second number going from 8 to 16 may be recommended if you are stressing the engine will lots of high speed or up hill driving, or if the engine has a lot of wear. They needed to change the oil pump to deal with numbers like 8 and make it electrically driven, that electrical pump surely will be designed to handle 20.

0w-16 is a very low viscosity, 0w-8 likely required some extra engineering. 16 should protect an engine better than 8, but I'm sure the coatings allow the engine to be protected even at this low viscosity. That old japanese test really made it important to drop viscosity, even though in the real world it likely saved 1% or less fuel, it likely registered higher on the old tests.

 

The 5th gen hybrid system will not come with improved mpg because it is not possible. It will have improved performance and acceleration feel but the real life mpg will stay the same.

Because of that they are going to market the phev version as a performance oriented model, where the economy part will be carried over to the plug in battery which will offer long range and low energy consumption. Maybe the battery can power only a large (140hp) rear motor achieving this way proper mileage.

The "problem" with the above is that it will cost significantly more, like 10k more, when implementing the phev parts. On the other hand you get awd, long phev range, 6 seconds to 60.

 

agreed

 

If Toyota uses a 12 kwh lithium iron phosphate battery their costs for this big battery will likely be down to $1200 by 2026 or lower. The prius already has most of the parts it needs for a plug in. In addition to the battery it will require a charge port, charging inverter, and likely beefed up electronics and a more powerful mg2 (perhaps take the one from the rav4, or add the mg3 from the rav4) and a split liquid cooling system for the battery. Costs will not be high. I do agree they may charge $10K more because if they do it right it will be a better car.

 

Yeah, quit dicking around with nth degree performance gains, tidy up the long-neglected esthetics and ergonomics, give some thought to reducing maintenance dificulties and repair costs, and oh have I mentioned: a spare in every level. Not that hard. I'm not holding my breath though.

 

Okay, here you go.
2022 Corolla Hybrid
Starting MSRP: $24,050
Est. MPG: 53/52
2022 Toyota Corolla Hybrid | Meet the Complete Package


Although, you'd need to get the "optional" ;-) spare tire and foam inlay from the non-hybrid Corolla.

2021 Corolla Hybrid Spare Tire? | Smart Toyota Madison
Jul 23, 2020
Smart Motors Toyota

 

The past generations going from 2 to 3 to 4 have seen around a 10% improvement to efficiency each time. Most of those gains have been because of improvements to the gas burning side of the system. The engine in the current model has a peak thermal efficiency of 40%. Some other Toyota engines are 41%. The one going into the next generation will likely be 42%. If the new battery is larger capacity, there will be some gains from making better use of the engine; longer times of it running at peak efficiency, or having it off.

Some gains in fuel economy will happen, but Toyota has already done the easy stuff to get the improvements seen in past models. The question they face now is whether getting the same rate of improvement as the past is worth the higher cost to do so. For selling cars, it probably isn't. Maintaining efficiency while improving performance is likely a better investment for sales. So would be in lowering the overall cost, as you can get more buyers willing to pick a hybrid version then.

Some want a hatch. Which is why Toyota doesn't sell the hatch in hybrid version, or the wagon at all, in the US. It would kill the no plug Prius. The hybrid Corolla wagon might even hurt Rav4 sales.

 

I was thinking something a little larger like the rav4 prime battery pack, the 120hp mg2 from the camry and a new 140hp motor for the back, with a combined output close to 280hp.

 

now just sell the hatchback in N/A, and you've got a winner

 

No spare in the hybrid though, foiled agin…

 

It doesn't come stock with one. However, there is that option to put a spare, and the foam insert from the non-hybrid Corolla, into the Hybrid Corolla.
Imho, weight, cost, and being similar to other vehicles in that market, are reasons why Toyota went with the fix/refill kit in the Hybrid, verses a mini-spare.
Hatchbacks are more popular in Canada (and ?Australia?). In general, hatchbacks have very low market shares world-wide. A low market share, means it may not be a profitable product for a company.
I like/love hatchbacks. My Prius is my nth "F150 incognito".