208km (129 miles) in electric mode with a gen 2 prius

Discussion in 'Prius PHEV Plug-In Modifications' started by planetaire, Oct 20, 2014.

  1. planetaire

    planetaire Plug in 20 kWh 85 km/h or > 208km range

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    It was a challenge. Going to the nearest beach and back without gasoline and without pluging my car during the trip.
    Theorically 101 km (63 miles) one way and same back. But some road where closed and finally 208.2km (129 miles) where done.

    I use a main pack which have 140 A123 20Ah, (I also keep the stock nimh pack), and a third pack made with 936 LG 2.8Ah 18650 cells.

    The A123 give the power, the LG increase the range.
    The A123 weight is 80 kg ( 176 lbs) for 9kWH, the LG 45 kg (99 lbs) for 9.8kWh.
    But the LG are energy cells, not power one. So I add a dc-dc converter between the 2 packs in order to control the amperage and then the 2 pack voltage can be different.
    The total is 20 kWh.
    The lg pack have a lower voltage then the A123, so a dc-dc converter (meanwell) is added to boost the voltage and control the amperage. (y) It was under 10A during this trip.

    I used 16.7 kWh so the average was 80.1 Wh/km (129 Wh/mile)

    This have been possible because I improved my car aero and used LRR tyres (Toyo nano 2)
    Aero mods are:
    Full underbody panels
    Wheel covered
    Front Grill blocked, keep just a small slot
    Rear wheel squirts
    Replaced 12v lead acid with 4xA123 20Ah+capacitive bms
    em_charge.JPG

    Inside the rear of the car, not final design:
    em_20kWh.JPG
    On top the LG cells just over the nimh.
    Same level then the nimh, the A123 some are in the spare tire.

    All in OOG mode, the more efficient one.
    Average speed was 46-47 km/h (29 Mph), top speed 85 km/h (53 mph)
    Max ev power 32kW ! Max regen 28 kW. 33% energy regen when going to the beach and 20% back.

    I enjoyed this trip. :)
     
  2. mrbigh

    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

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    What would you do different to improve range? besides lowering the top speed................
     
  3. planetaire

    planetaire Plug in 20 kWh 85 km/h or > 208km range

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    The first would be to remove the nimh cells and then replace with 30kg (66 lbs) LG cells.
    This would add 6.5 kWh (more then 5.5 kWh usable) so 69 km more (43 miles)
    Second you can remove the spare tire, 10kg then add 23km more (14 miles).
    After this I would drive during summer, hotter air, give better mpg. When i drove the temp was 20°C.
    Then I would use a road that I know, in order to reduce the regen. Because the more regen you have the more losts.
    If you have more money, you could replace the LG cells 2.8Ah with Panasonic one 3.4 Ah, same weight.
    You could also add a boat tail, replace rear side mirror with camera

    ....

    And finally remove the engine, but before driving :sneaky:
     
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  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    well done!(y)
     
  5. elman1

    elman1 Junior Member

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    planteraire,

    Impressive set-up.

    I live in Spain and own a PII from 12-2008. I have several questions:

    1.
    Would you consider equipping my car with a plug-in system, and if yes, what's your price ?
    In order no to lose too much trunk space, I'd be satisfied with 10-15 kwh. I'd be willing to sacrifice spare-wheel space, but want to keep even cargo space in trunk. If with new batteries i could go to 20 kwh under these conditions, OK by me.
    Whereabout do you live in F ? I sometimes go for vacation to the Bayonne area, but would push up further north if necessary.

    2. Any temp management (ventilator ?)

    3. Have you had any issues with the system, or has it been flawless ?

    4.
    How does your system compare with the systems from company "pluginsupply" (please google, as we newbies are not allowed to post links)
    especially with reference to battery mgt systems, ability to use regen braking etc.

    Congrats for your courage and hope to hear from you.

    elman1
     
  6. mrbigh

    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

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    Are you a member of the "Mitoyotaprius" website?
     
  7. elman1

    elman1 Junior Member

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    mitoyotaprius seems to be offline for the moment, at least for me !

    no, i'm not a member there, as of yet.
     
  8. planetaire

    planetaire Plug in 20 kWh 85 km/h or > 208km range

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    Hello elman1. I don't sell anything. Sorry.
    I only help diyers. We are 4 diyers here in France using this plug-in design.
    I use A123 20Ah cells. Have done 4,5kWh and later 9kWh. It is possible to have 13.5 kWh if you remove the spare tire.
    9 kWh weight 80 kg. 13.5 kWh would be 115-120kg. You can have 4.5kWh in the spare place and 9kWh over.
    With the 9kWh I haven't changed the rear spring. With 13.5 kWh it will be necessary.
    You have pictures in my album

    If you use A123 20Ah cells, because they have a very small internal resistance (except in winter) it is not necessary where I live.
    With the 9kWh version, the cell temp increase is about 10°C during a trip. So begining at 30°C you end with 40°C. These cell must be used under 55°C.
    You may have temp problem if parked in a sunny place in summer. Temp can be very high in a car.

    In summer I have to add a small ventilator over my charger (Elcon 2kW) say 2-3 times in the year.
    If not his amperage is automatically reduced and charging time is increased (Derating).

    I had same problem with the bms. You can have more infos in this thread.
    This bms have a ttl bus that have to be the shorter possible.
    No problem on the power circuit. No problem with bms+

    As far as I know, pluginsupply use contactors that are opened/closed during travelling and use a lithium pack that have a highter voltage then the nimh.
    I have a contactor but it stay closed during all the trip. It is opened only during grid charging. The lithium pack have the same average voltage then the stock nimh. That is wy I use 70 A123 cells not more not less. You have full regen power, except with the 4.5kWh system and cell temp under 0°C.

    If you remove the stock nimh cells you can use bms orion system and more then 70 lifepo4 cells.
    I meet a diyer that have not used A123 cells but only 18650 Limn.. cells. Total 16kWh. He came from belgium.
    In France a society use Winston cells.
    Both use orion system. Both changed the rear springs. Because cells weight and also because they don't leave any space behind the cells.
    You are welcome.
     
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  9. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    Very nice. It is rarely economical to do it, but it is a heck of a lot of fun.
     
  10. planetaire

    planetaire Plug in 20 kWh 85 km/h or > 208km range

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    It depend upon gasoline price and electricity price. Here in France driving in ev mode is 5 times cheaper then with gasoline.
    Engine will last longer.
     
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  11. chiffis

    chiffis Junior Member

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    nice work ! I'm also running the Hybrid Interface solution , but with a BMS2 and only 4.3 kWh GBS lifePo Pack. I recently installed the ice kill switch -- it works great !.
    Now how abot the lubrication when running all the time in Ev mode ?. I've read a number of threads on this topic but have'nt found any conclusive advice. Does the engine suffer harm when running in EV mode during long periods ? How often do you change your Oil ?

    Regards Kristoffer
     
  12. planetaire

    planetaire Plug in 20 kWh 85 km/h or > 208km range

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    Kristoffer

    I have 10 or 20 kWh inside, depending on the length of the trip. So I use my car like en ev car (Last week I drive 380km, 235 miles, in one day with three charge). Last tank fuelling was last year, 11 month ago. During this time I drive more then 12 000km ( 7450 miles). I use the engine once a month, just for lubrificating or if I don't have enough electricity for one trip. I will change oil this year, haven't changed it in two years. The color of the oil is still yellow.

    My Prius has become a very efficient ev car with a very good Cx (0.22), not too heavy. 110 Wh/km from the plug in ev mode.
     
  13. chiffis

    chiffis Junior Member

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    Ok, I will fire the ICE once a month when the car is used daily as an EV. What oil do you use ? I'm planning to change to 0W-30 full synthetic long life oil.
    merci beaucoup ! /Kristoffer
     
  14. lopezjm2001

    lopezjm2001 Senior Member

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    Basically our PHEV is a PIP (plug in prius). You may want to read the PIP section to find out when the PIP fires the ICE just for lubrication.
     
  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i know it runs every 124 miles to keep the gas from getting stale.
     
  16. planetaire

    planetaire Plug in 20 kWh 85 km/h or > 208km range

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    I still use 5w30 oil. Not sure 0w20 would be better for an engine that don't run. Does somebody knows ?
    I don't have a good knowledge of oil properties. I think that some part of the engine could rust. MG2, MG1 and the transaxle are still oiled in ev mode. But there is some evaporated part of gasoline in the admission air intake, even after a very long time in ev mode. If you open the air intake filter, it smell. I suppose this gas come from the tank (we don't have a bladder in our prius) when outside temp increase.

    @bisco, 124 miles (say 200km :)) seems to me a very short time (with for exemple an average speed of 50 km/h = 4 hours). What happens if we don't use our car during several months ?

    Concerning gas I only add 10 liters last year., less then 3 gallons. In my country we have many more public plugs, but they can be out of order, some can be used at any time others no.
    So my prius has become more a ev car with a gasoline range extender then a gasoline car with a battery extender.
     
  17. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    The engine in the Plug-in model runs only briefly every 124 miles (200 km) if you've been driving nothing but EV for that distance.
     
  18. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i think gas is typically good for about 6 months. not sure of the reason for the 124 mile rule, but it's a small price to pay for lot's of ev driving. i trust toyota to usually get it right.
     
  19. lopezjm2001

    lopezjm2001 Senior Member

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    #19 lopezjm2001, Jul 4, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2015
  20. Dimitris

    Dimitris Junior Member

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    Greetings people,
    I would like to ask Planetaire (or any other person who has done the same mod) some questions.
    I have a gen 2 prius with LPG. I want to install an extra pack so that I can climb mountains without using fuel and also be able to charge my batteries going downhill.

    Today I had at least 20kms of downhill and the stock battery was charged by the first couple of kms, so the rest of the downhill was wasted.... After that downhill it was plain straight highway and I just had some economy at the first couple of kms.

    I have found 26650 batteries at 5.2Ah and 40-80A max discharge. If I use 6 of them for each cell (2 rows of 3 in parallel) and combine 28cells in serial to bring the voltage up to 207V nominal. 3 in parallel would give 120-240A max and if the capacity is what they tested that would be 31.2Ah for 28cells at 207V total 6.4KWh. Max power would be 207*120 or 207*240 so anything between 24 to 48Kw.
    Question is what kind of BMS can I match with these and can they be charged via REGEN?
    Also where can I connect the terminals of that second battery?

    That is all for now....
     
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