Featured 2G Prius Plug-in Reveal - March 23 @ 9:10 am EDT - Live Stream here

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by PRPrius, Mar 15, 2016.

  1. talonts

    talonts VFAQman

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    I don't think I've had a passenger in the rear seat on my 06. Ever. I'm not even sure I ever had a passenger in the rear on the 04 we also have. Would I like storage and a thinner/lighter bulkhead there instead of a seat? Sure. I've done exactly that on past cars I have owned. Would I expect Toyota to bring out a liftback with just 2 seats? Hell no. My needs are pretty niche. I haven't even felt the need to remove the rear seat and build a deck to replace it in the 10 years I have had the car, so it's not exactly high on my priority list over other things.

    As for the 10 seater, there is a stretched 2G out there ;-)

    The US is a very big place. While many people live close to amenities, many more do not. All of the things you listed (except church, which I couldn't care less about, but no surprise several are closer) are at least 10 miles away for me. Any shopping I normally do is 15-30 miles away. It will take many, many decades before urban sprawl reaches my area.

    But then again, I probably need the heater in the morning at most a dozen times a year. I need the AC first thing FAR more often.
     
    #541 talonts, Mar 28, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 28, 2016
  2. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    yep, prime appears to allow the driver to force charge. This feature was first available on porsche. I believe there is a reason in Europe ability to be electric only in cities, but that does not matter in the US.
     
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    hyundai has it. jeff n made a good point for people in mountainous areas, can keep a charge for good power going long steep uphills where prius tends to peter out. but it's a fairly select group of buyers i think, and then they have to decide if they can live with 4 seats and less hatch space.
     
  4. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    He keeps looking to his left. It's a bit distracting lol. But otherwise, it's a good enough review that I can get an idea of how the Sonata PHEV functions. Thanks for sharing.

    The solar panel ventilation system (SPVS) on the Gen 3 draws outside ambient air and flushes out the stagnant hotter air from the cabin. It's as if you left the fan on in the car. The SPVS only works to ventilate hot air and will not recirculate inside air.

    If you're at steady state on the highway and it's a DC-DC charge, it shouldn't be that inefficient to charge the battery, should it?

    Some European cities a noise-free zones so an EV allows you to drive through those parts of the town or village.
     
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  5. Jan Treur

    Jan Treur Active Member

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    This really takes away my doubts. Instead of being a problem when you have to leave the car in the sun to get charged, it is the other way around. The SPVS system protects the battery when your car is in the sun at any time. In an extensive investigation on degradation of Leaf batteries it has turned out that high temperature is the most significant factor affecting degradation. So, this SPVS system is a good extra reason to choose for a solar roof. But this also triggers another question. Without a solar roof, if the battery is sufficiently charged, can the Prime do the same: cool the battery in an active manner by using this ventilation system while being parked?

    It seems that there are still doubts about the amount of kWh that can be produced on the horizontal area of the roof. I can give data I have found for my country. I think other regions such as CA will still be more productive: more sunny days, closer to equator. I have solar panels of 265 Wattpeak (Wp) that are 1.65 m2, which should fit on the roof of the car. I have them both horizontal (1 degree) and at 30 degrees. For a sunny day in June the horizontal panel produces about 1.5 kWh, and the more optimal one about 2 kWh. So, indeed being horizontal gives a loss of 25%, but still the 1.5 kWh can give you an additional 10 km or 7 miles. Over a year at my location the production by a horizontal panel is about 210 kWh, whereas the more optimal panel produces about 260 kWh. So, taking into account also cloudy days the loss of being horizontal is about 20%. Actually, horizontal panels produce a bit (up to 15 or 20%) more on cloudy days than panels at 30 degrees, as they receive radiation from the clouds from more directions.

    The 210 kWh annual production of a horizontal panel provides about 1500 km or 1000 miles additional EV range per year. For sunny states such as CA this can be much more. But at the basis of these calculations is the number of Wattpeaks of the solar panels on the roof of the Prime; is that known? For example, when thin film panels would be used, the number of Wattpeaks and production can be about 15% lower for the same roof area.
     
    #545 Jan Treur, Mar 28, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2016
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  6. Redpoint5

    Redpoint5 Senior Member

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    I'm confused by you repeating the same info about charging the traction battery with solar on the Prius because previously you agreed that it would be an inefficient and ineffective way to add range.

    It's pointless to add solar charging because owners of a plug-in vehicle will already start with a topped off battery from plugging in. Range extension then would only occur when the vehicle is driven away from home. The car wouldn't be charging all day then, but instead only when not at home, while parked in direct sunlight, for many hours.

    The extra weight, cost, and reliability isn't worth the paltry gains in EV range considering how efficient the petrol engine on the Prius is.

    There is a reason why no manufacturer has an option to recharge the traction battery with solar, and it isn't because they haven't thought of it yet.
     
  7. Jan Treur

    Jan Treur Active Member

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    I never said inefficient. Of course when you have the opportunity to use solar panels in a good position on your house it is better. That´s the part where I agree. But for those who do not have this possibility or when you park at work or at any other place elsewhere it might give a useful addition. So, I don´t have a radical opinion about it, and even became a bit more positive after I learnt that the battery is actively cooled.
     
  8. inferno

    inferno Senior Member

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    But manufacturers are working on it... Popular panel maker sunpower built a prototype with Ford a couple years ago and now Toyota had that concept for production..
     
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    jan, i'm confused. are you thinking there is solar ventilation on the prime?
     
  10. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Let's round up the likely suspects:
    I need some names (or aliases) to go with the faces
    (y):rolleyes:
    :censored::X3::D:eek:
    [​IMG]
     
    #550 wjtracy, Mar 29, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2016
  11. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Which doesn't elevate the concept above marketing gimmick. A solar panel put on an installation; a home or even a EV charger, will out produce one on the roof of the car. They can be placed in better positions. Even be sun tracking or cooled.

    A car's roof will likely not be in the optimum place for the solar panel, assuming it can be parked in the sun to begin with. When the sun is in the right spot, the curved panel will still be out produced than a flat one in the same spot. A flat panel on a car will compromise the car's aerodynamics. The car panel also has to be light weight, with being curved increases the panel's cost.

    For the cost, PV on a building or charger will pump more renewable electric into the grid than one on a car into traction pack.

    There might be benefit to PV on a BEV, if the owner regularly needs to leave it unplugged in the open.

    If the Primes with the solar charging option don't ventilate the cabin and battery, that is an oversight with potential problems to the battery.
     
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  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    well, i haven't read where they do, that's why i'm confused about jan's comment. tideland references gen 3.
     
  13. Jan Treur

    Jan Treur Active Member

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    Yes, you are right, I was a bit fast in concluding that it also holds for the Prime. But I would be surprised if such a useful system would not be reused in the Prime as well. Maybe we need a confirmation from the Prius Team to be sure.
     
  14. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    The incentive fund in TX ran dry last year and was not reinstated.

    This attribute is either over looked or not considered but it is so nice to just drive "normal" yet rack up stellar mpg(e)'s.

    Yeah, I've already started thinking this way. Last year it was 20 gallons and so far in the first 1/4 of this year I'm somewhere between 3 and 4 gallons. I do use the wife's car more on out of town trips mainly because of its adaptive cruise feature.
     
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  15. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Most of the info we are likely to see with ease will likely be North American centric. So few details on stuff we ain't getting at this time.

    Solar powered cabin venting has been a luxury car option for decades before it appeared on the gen 3. Adding it with the solar charging should be a no brainer. A black PV panel will heat up the cabin quicker. actively venting it will improve creature comfort, and also help control the temperature of the charging battery.
     
  16. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    Nope, I got it right the first time. Prime is not an EREV for although it refuses to start the gas engine due to acceleration in EV mode it will indeed start the engine at speeds over 84 mph. In EV mode it does not electronically limit vehicle speed to 84 mph.
     
  17. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    I suppose but the combination of the moonroof and solar panel increases the centre of gravity, so a SR-equipped Gen 3 may handle differently than a non-SR equipped Gen 3. There haven't been reports (at least I haven't seen one) of a Prius battery failing due to heat. There were some issues with the Gen 2's rear brakelight fins which is probably why they switched it from black to chrome for the Gen 2.5.

    The Gen 3's roof produces a peak of 59W but I can't seem to find that source. I just saw it yesterday. 120-150W for the Prime seems reasonable but I don't follow the solar panel industry closely.
     
  18. Jan Treur

    Jan Treur Active Member

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    The problems found in the extensive Leaf battery investigation were not failing of the battery, but severe degradation over time in the hottest regions. To avoid that for the Prime battery, a cooling system that becomes active when the temperature rises too much when the car is parked would be very helpful.
     
  19. KrPtNk

    KrPtNk Active Member

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    I would be surprised if there isn't such a cooling system. The interior of a car in the sun in the southwestern US gets like an oven.
     
  20. Jan Treur

    Jan Treur Active Member

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    Using the state of the art materials that are available by now, 250Wp should be possible as well.
     
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