2nd Gen Prius Plug-In already in the works? September 2016 release noted

Next Toyota Prius Plug-In Hybrid To Have 30 To 35 Miles Of Range: Source

 

i wish. but an 'industry source' from last july doesn't fill me with confidence.

 

I think 21-22 miles is about right!

Current PIP EV Range:
18 km (11 mi) EPA
23 km (14 mi) NEDC
26.4 km (16.4 mi) (Japanese cycle)

 

If the 21-22 mi EV range proves true, +50% of commuters could go all EV round trip and +78% could go all EV if a charger is present at work.

If the 30-35 mi EV range proves true (count me a skeptic), +68% of commuters could go all EV round trip and +90% could go all EV if a charger is present at work.

Either way, that would open the PiP to substantially more customers who want pure commute EV.

American Commute Distance (One Way) Percent (Commute Statistics | Statistic Brain)
1-5 Miles 29 %
6-10 Miles 22 %
11-15 Miles 17 %
16-20 Miles 10 %
21-25 Miles 7 %
26-30 Miles 5 %
31-35 Miles 3 %
35 + Miles 8 %

 

Toyota might as well not even bother if they can't provide at least 30 miles of range. Anything less at this late date, with the expected alternatives, and with a Prius designed for the purpose, would be an even bigger joke than the 11 miles they get now. Personally it would need more than that to get me to upgrade. I'd be far more likely to jump to the Chrysler Pacifica at the low end of the range, or a volt at the higher end, assuming we are only discussing hybrids rather than full EVs.

 

.... I keep remembering a 2-yr old post, saying something like for CARB reasons PiP2 has to go from 6 miles pure EV by CARB definition up to 10-11 by CARB definition. Presumably this relates to ZEV credits not HOV access.

 

I agree, the 11 mile range is a total joke and pathetic. Not only that, they take sooo long to charge for a pitiful 11 mile range even with an L2 charger.

That probably explains why they have plunged in resale value.

Toyota better have at least 25 to 30 range especially now that they have a lot of competition.


iPhone ?

 

I hope they include 6 kW charging as it would make paid charging stations actually worth it.

 

It's not just the summer range that is important but the behaviour of the car and how it uses that range, in all seasons. I work 16 km from home and right now often times I still have EV range left after I make the trip. Why? Because with the heat in the car on, the ICE engine is on most of the time.

Also, I've been getting fuel usage as high as 5 L / 100 km on occasion, for a sub 25 km trip even if I started the trip out fully charged.

IOW, it is nearly impossible to use this car as a true EV, unless you specifically design your usage to attain that goal like never turning on the cabin heater and never accelerating quickly.

 

it's not meant to be used as an ev primarily. i think toyota will give it enough range to try and sell enough for car credits or whatever political purpose it will serve. honestly, people looking for a lot of ev range should be happy with 40 mpg hybrids. but no one makes one as big as the prius yet.

 

At $2.00/gal. average, notice Gen 3 hybrid costs less to run 25 miles than plug-ins.

Today around here, the lowest is $1.64/gal. Compare Side-by-Side

 

no question. i am actually paying for ev driving right now. i'm a nitwit.

 

Applying 2016 market expectations to a design targeted at 2012 consumers is what?

Think about how the mindset was back then.

Back when PHV was first rolled out, battery-capacity was expensive and it required seating/cargo compromises. Toyota worked hard to deliver a design that had the potential to earn profit and would not require interior room sacrifice. It was a careful balance effort to address tradeoffs of the time.

Market change is why there are generational upgrades. Insulting an approach of the past that clearly achieved the goals it was set out to fulfill isn't constructive. Toyota delivered what the market had been asking for and it performed well. What other hybrid of the time offered so much space inside with a solid efficiency boost and a production-cost kept in check? None.

As for resale value, all the plug-in values have dropped quite a bit. That's simply the nature of first-gen rollouts. It was an expectation that selling on later would include a big depreciation hit. We hope the technology advances quickly enough for that to happen. Slow growth is not a desired outcome. Hopefully, the early buyers understood that.

As for competition, there's more to selling plug-in hybrids than just battery-capacity. Cost to produce (not selling price) will have a significant influence on how sales are approached by both dealers & consumers. There's also the practical nature that's appealing, the same things people look for in other vehicles should be present in the choices offered with plug. The true competing vehicles are what can be found next to the plug-in on the dealer's showroom floor. Remember, appeal of offerings from other automakers falls off as generations advance.

 

I hope that my paying for driving EV is at least lowering the impact on Houston's city air, but lately people seem to be questioning the single vs. multi point of pollution equation. I'm paying a little more for wind generated electricity too.

 

This may all be true from a marketing standpoint. Humans are strange creatures.

There are “needs” and “wants”, but ultimately it is the wants that sell vehicles. That’s why there are so many in SUVs and pickup trucks as solo commuters going to and from work each day. These commuters really only “need” a Prius but want what they are actually driving. Don't bother renting or borrowing a larger vehicle for the few times needed...

For 50% of all U.S. commuters in the market for a plug-in, one that gets 21-22 mi EV range will keep them in all EV during their commute. Sure, 30, 40, or 50 miles EV range sounds enticing, but it’s unnecessary and comes at the expense of using more gasoline when having to make long trips. It's psychology that sells, not logic.

If max EV range is really a want, better to skip the Plug-in Prius or Volt or anything in between and go for the upcoming Bolt et al. or save up for a Tesla Model S or X.

 

Well, I get the impression the 2012 Plug-in Prius was an experiment to see how much uptake there would be, and they tried to keep development costs to a minimum and also created a car that would do well on the US EPA testing without so much effort. The PiP sure doesn't feel like a ground up design.

No, design doesn't have to be revolutionary to be important, but maybe I'm just spoiled. The Prius 2001 was revolutionary to me when I bought it, but the Plug-in Prius feels a bit like an incomplete implementation. I'm not regretting my decision to purchase it, but I do understand where some of the others are coming from.

As for depreciation, the revolutionary Prius 2001 kept its value very well, as did my Prius 2004. I'm not so concerned about the PiP 2012 as much though since I didn't get it new. I bought it used in 2015 for a significant discount, and it was the only used Prius around with all the tech goodies, so i I figured I may as well get the PiP. (New pricing on the PiP with Tech Package was around CAD$48500ish including taxes and freight, minus the $5000 government rebate, so about $43500ish). I paid about $29000 plus tax, so $32770 including tax with 29000 km (18000 miles) on it. Not the best deal in the world, but perhaps a several thousand dollar premium over a regular Prius similarly equipped (which wasn't even available at the time). At current exchange rates, my pre-tax price was about US$20000 (although at exchange rates last year it would have been more like US$23000).

I'm curious though. What is the depreciation down south? How much more does a PiP get over a regular Prius with the same mileage and options package? It's hard to say up here in Canada since the PiP is virtually non-existent.

 

I have seen the used average mileage 2012 PiPs in the $13,xxx USD, currently, and continues to fall.

When I bought my used 2012 Blizzard Pearl w/ 37k miles in December 2015, it was $14,998 USD for reference. Based on research sites, I paid an approx $800 premium for low mileage on my car.

At the time, the used PIPs in the US were selling below regulars prius' for some reason. (New, the PIP is a $7k premium above regular prius)

Speculation was people thought you had to "plug in" so no one wanted a PIP or 11 mile range wasn't worth any type of $$$ premium, which is understandable.

A few of us PC members noticed the same as indicated above and made our purchases recently.

I don't know if the PIPs are still selling below regular prius prices since I already bought mine, so my research and comparisons ended there.


iPhone ?

 

Wow, that's disappointing. I knew the resale on the PiP wouldn't be the greatest, but to see it sell for LESS than the regular Prius makes no sense whatsoever to me.

Anyhoo I just had a look at Autotrader and checked out all the Plug-in Advanced vs. the Prius Five with the 2012-2013 model years within 500 miles of the 90210 zip code. The prices are not all that different. Wow. Maybe on average the Plug-in Advanced might be $1000 more or something like that, but then again, one of the cheapest ones listed (at well under $15000) is a PiP.

Last year when I was looking, there was still a few thousand premium on the Plug-in Advanced vs. the Prius Five. Given that, my retrospectoscope tells me the perhaps I should have just gone with my original plan last year (after my 2004 was totalled), which was to get a beater Prius for a couple of years, then buy a new 2017 Prius or 2017 Prius Plug-in.

 

that Makes at least two of us!

 

So if Canada PiP pricing follows the US, effectively I paid a many thousand dollar premium just to get the Advanced Technology Package in a used model, since the plug-in part of it is now worth almost nothing on the used market.

To put it another way, IIRC there were some 2012 or later Priuses in the CAD$22000-25000 range last year, but none of them had the Advanced Technology Package (which is simply called the Technology Package in Canada). To get that Tech Package I had to jump up around $5000 to get the lone Prius with it available, which happened to be a PiP. So I did, hoping the plug-in part would still be worth at least a couple thousand bucks on its own on resale.

Oh well, c'est la vie.

BTW, the PiP is also about CAD$7000 more than the fully decked out regular Prius here.