2nd set of Tires and Rims - TPMS Question

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by DBLXX, Mar 5, 2020.

  1. DBLXX

    DBLXX Member

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    Pretty simple question - I want to have a 2nd set of Tires and Rims...Winter and Summer. Can I purchase a whole second set of TPMS sensors (Tire Rack $42 each) and just install them into the second set of rims/tires and just freely rotate both sets of rims/tires on and off without any type of programming or trips to the dealer?

    Want to prevent ECU confusion and warning lights.

    Thanks
     
  2. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    No, you will need to reprogram (register or relearn whichever the term used) ECU each time you swap the wheels. Unless you can have TireRack sell you programmable TPMS sensors with the cloned sensor ID# off of your OEM sensors you have now, you will need to visit a dealer (~$100/swap) or tire shop (~$50/swap) for the reprogramming. But to clone the sensor IDs, you will have to be able to read the TPMS sensor ID's off from ECU. For that you will need either TPMS tool or Techstream. Or if you want to DIY the reprogramming, you will need either TPMS tools like Ateq Quickset ($~130) or Autel TS508 (~$200) that can do OBDII re-learn procedure, or need a functional Techstream on a laptop with MiniVCI cable. The cheapest solution would be not to install TPMS sensors in your second winter set wheels and go without TPMS or use cheap external TPMS sensors ($20-$40). I do the external sensor option with my winter wheel set.

    tpms.png
     
    #2 Salamander_King, Mar 5, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2020
  3. Jchoi808

    Jchoi808 Junior Member

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    I'm in the middle of this same thing. I went ahead and purchased the Autel T408 and the MX sensors. I have already gone and cloned the new MX sensors to match my existing ones. Just waiting to get them installed. I would say that the T408 and the 4 sensors cost me around $260.00 on Amazon.
     
  4. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    That would work. It is too late for you now, but if you wanted the most versatile solution, you should have purchased Autel TS508 with MX sensor kit. You could have had the entire kit with 8 Autel Programmable MX sensors and TS508 tool for about $250 at eBay. The difference between TS408 and TS508 is that TS 508 has OBDII interface to re-program ECU of many foreign maker TPMS including Toyota, while TS408 does not have OBDII interface.
    TS508.png
     
    #4 Salamander_King, Mar 5, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2020
  5. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    With Toyota no.

    With a Mazda, yes. I believe it might take one intitial introduction by the dealership. But from then on, the drill is something like: swap the wheels, drive a bit, the car discovers the switch, sorts everything out. Simple eh.

    upload_2020-3-5_9-9-42.png
    upload_2020-3-5_9-10-24.png
    Mazda sensors are $30 CDN apiece, through an online Mazda dealership. And every fall their dealerships offer complete snow tires packages, with appropriate Mazda steel rims, sensors, centre caps, all-in, for around $1500 CDN. I really wish Toyota would step up their game on this.

    One simple course, with Toyota: just get regular valves on the snow tires. You will have a warning light on the dash. As long as this doesn't fail you in some inspection, it's an option. Obviously you don't have the TPMS early warning
     
    #5 Mendel Leisk, Mar 5, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2020
  6. m8547

    m8547 Active Member

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    The problem in the US is, there's a law that makes tire shops liable if they defeat a working TMPS system. It might be hard to find a shop that lets you do snow tires without TPMS. You could bring your own tires and wheels and lie to them and say you have a 2007 Prius (the tire size is slightly different, 185/65-15 on the 2007 vs 195/65-15 on the Prime). Or find a shop that doesn't care. If you show up with the light already on, that might be OK because then the shop didn't break it.

    It's extremely frustrating that Toyota makes it difficult to program another set of sensors. It's a cost/hassle barrier to getting snow tires, so in some ways this system reduces safety.
     
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  7. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Or if you are ordering new wheels and tires from online, like TireRack or Discount Tire Direct, they will mount tires on rims without TPMS sensors using simple rubber stem valves. You can then install the mounted tires DIY. That's what I did with my winter wheels.
     
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  8. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Yeah the sand pounder is that TPMS is a good idea. :mad:


    Sand pounder number two...
     
  9. m8547

    m8547 Active Member

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    Yes, that's what I did. Now I need new snow tires soon, so I have to figure out something else.

    I'd rather have both snow tires and TPMS. But if I had to pick one, snow tires are more important. And I like to be able to swap my own wheels.
     
  10. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    There is no need to lie about it, when you are the one who will bolt the wheels back on to the car. They can do all the work up to that point, then load the tire-wheel sets into your trunk for your trip home. The rule against defeating TPMS applies only to them, not to the car's owner.

    But there is also no need to mention the specific car year in the first place.
     
  11. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    At least at most of our local tire shops, if I drive in with snow tires on the rim that has no TPMS sensors, then they are happy to install new set of tires on these rims without installing new TPMS sensors. The law requires them not to disable the working TPMS, but if it is not working when I drive into their shop, they are not breaking a law by not installing TPMS sensors. It just has to be mentioned at the service desk to note that TPMS was not working at the time I drove into their shop. They also will replace the tires on rims without TPMS sensors if they are off the car. Again, in this case they are not breaking any law, since they are not the one installing the tires and wheels onto the car.
     
    #11 Salamander_King, Mar 5, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2020
  12. DBLXX

    DBLXX Member

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    Question - do I need 8 sensors? Don't I have 4 already or what you are saying is to replace all 8, use the tool to program all 8 to the car and then I won't ever need it again?

    The car won't throw a TPMS code, will it... or is that what the tool is for?

    Thanks everyone.
     
  13. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    No, you only need 4 new sensors for your set of winter wheels. I was just quoting the Autel TS508 kit that comes with 8 Autel MX sensors. This is cheaper than buying the tool and sensors separately especially if you have plan to use on other cars.

    The car has only 4 sensor ID slot (some says 5, but since PRIME does not come with spare tire 5th slot is usually empty). If you have two sets of wheels with different TPMS sensor IDs, you will need to reprogram (register or re-learn depending on who you ask) each time you swap the tires. If you do not reprogram the ECU, then TPMS error code will be on. New set of wheels will not function properly with the different TPMS sensors that is not recognized by the car's ECU.

    The Autel TS508 is the TPMS tool that can be used to register the new set of TPMS sensor IDs when you swap the tires. You will use it every time you swap tires DIY. If you are planning to take your car to a tire shop for swapping tires twice a year, then you don't need to buy this tool. You will just pay the shop $50 (or ~$100 for a dealer) at each tire swap.
     
    #13 Salamander_King, Mar 5, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2020
  14. DBLXX

    DBLXX Member

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    Going to swap myself. I'll grab the Autel TS508 package you describe.

    Thanks !
     
  15. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    If you already ordered wheels and tires with TPMS sensors from TireRack, then all you will need is a TS508 tool. It retails around $200-$250 in eBay or Amazon. In this case, you will be paying ~$160 for 4 sensors from TireRack but they will include mounting and balancing tires. So when you receive them, they are ready to be installed on your car and you can use the TS508 to program the new set of TPMS.

    If you have not ordered wheels and tires yet, then you can buy TS508 tool kit with 8 sensors from eBay ($200-$355 depending on who you buy it from and condition and way sold Buyitnow or auction). I got my tool and 8 sensors at ~$250, but retail price is $395. If you are ordering wheels and tires online, you can ask them to send them separately. You will then have to take your TPMS sensors, tires, and wheels to a local shop to mount and balance with TPMS sensors installed. With Autel MX sensors, you have an option of cloning existing OEM TPMS sensor IDs off from your summer tires. If you do this, in theory, you will not have to program the ECU each time you swap tires for two sets of tires will have identical 4 IDs. I have not done this myself, and I have read on different thread that sometimes cloned sensors do not get recognized by the car's ECU as it supposed to. Alternatively, you can buy Toyota OEM TPMS sensors from Amazon, they should cost you similar to what TireRack charges ~$40/each or less and use them on the winter wheels. They are not clonable, so in this case, you will have to register TPMS ID at each swap using TS508. Another thing to remember is that OEM TPMS sensors may not be compatible aftermarket wheels. This also applies to Autel MX sensors as well. Depending on what wheels you buy, some sensors are not compatible to be installed.

    Of note, when you are looking for Autel TS508 on ebay, you may also find TS501 tool sold much cheaper. This tool is older model of TS508, but have very similar functionality. I don't have an experience with TS501, but it should work similar to TS508 albeit older user interface. It maybe a bargain to grab it, if you want to save some $$$.
     
    #15 Salamander_King, Mar 5, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2020
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  16. m8547

    m8547 Active Member

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    I could use a set of TPMS sensors for my snow tires, and (at least) one of the TPMS sensors in my 4runner failed, and I have a set of wheels for it with no senors, so I could actually use between 8-13 sensors. 8 sensors and a "free" programming tool is not a bad deal.
     
  17. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    If you are going to buy Autel TS508 kit, make sure 8 sensors included are of the correct frequency for your cars. Some come with mixed 315 MHz, 433 MHz sensors. MX sensors that can be used both 315 MHz and 433 MHz are also available. The rubber and aluminum stems are also mixed some times, but stems are cheap and interchangeable.
     
    #17 Salamander_King, Mar 5, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2020
  18. CraigM

    CraigM Active Member

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    Am I missing something? Doesn’t the tire shop just swap the wheels, and reset the TPMS?

    In December I bought winter tires, wheels and TPMS from Discount Tire.

    I made an appointment to have the summer set put back on yesterday. 25 minutes after arriving, I drove off with the winters in the “trunk”, TPMS reset on the summers. Clean hands, and a free cup of coffee.
     
  19. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Not remote on-line tire sellers such as Tire Rack.

    They can sell and ship complete mounted tire-and-wheel sets, without or without TPMS, but they don't have access to the car to reprogram the car.
     
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  20. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    And for anyone who wants to DIY their wheel swaps. Again, Toyota could get off their duff and make this MUCH easier.
     
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