$35k Model 3 now available

too bad, but i'm not surprised. too bad he didn't skip the roof and gull wings

 

No, I am not.

My point is that the consumer who buys today is betting that the network will be expanded. If the network is not expanded, the increase in BEVs will result in short supply of charging and/or an exorbitant increase in the cost of electrons.

Electricity, like gasoline, is a instantly limited commodity that is subject shortages and upward fluctuation in costs as demand increases. The cost of gasoline is relatively stable (even in California where we like to pay gas taxes) because over time its availability versus demand has equalized. There is no such equalization for SuperCharger power. Even among Tesla owners, the costs vary. Early adopters pay nothing. Recent adopters are paying more today than they were a year ago. There is absolutely no way to accurately predict the cost of SuperCharger power. And that is a fact..

 

M3 is not a Model 3, please use correct designations.

Everyone has a hidden agenda if they don’t like Tesla!

There are many USA residents who can not charge at home, maybe Elon is working on wireless charging

In the long run electricity will rise in cost, there is no way around it. Gas will be a bargain.

 

The sun. photo-voltaic, is instantly limited? Yes, and the earth is flat too!
[/quote]There is absolutely no way to accurately predict the cost of SuperCharger power. And that is a fact..[/QUOTE]
There is even a less way to predict the cost of gasoline power. And that is a fact! I have photo-voltaic on my roof which stabilizes my costs. It is easy for you to do the same.

 

There is absolutely no way to accurately predict the cost of SuperCharger power. And that is a fact..[/QUOTE]
There is even a less way to predict the cost of gasoline power. And that is a fact! I have photo-voltaic on my roof which stabilizes my costs. It is easy for you to do the same.[/QUOTE]

If you live in a single family home. You keep forgetting this fact, more and more people are living in Condos, and urban apartments.

 

How many?

What does "wireless charging" have to do with charging at home, other than having not to physically plug in?

All the fanboys on Prius Chat have a hidden agenda if they like Toyotas

The earth is flat!

And you are forgetting the fact that the great State of Californation is requiring that all new residential construction - single family, condos, apartments - are required to have photo-voltaic systems. Other States should be so progressive!

 

As a Fanboy for Toyota as you like to call us loyal customers, I really don’t lose any sleep thinking about Tesla and the fate of Toyota. Toyota will be around for along time after I am gone. EV cars are here and will grow in use, but Tesla has a long road ahead. So you can continue to promote Tesla all you want. I will wait for a Legacy makers EV to take my hard earned cash.

 

Only new single family homes with garages. New homes have to have power connect outlets on the roof for the install of solar if the owner wishes to install panels in the future. You forget that California is already built out. Not much land for new construction, unless your going Into the IE.

 

Plenty of room in the entire state outside of metro areas.

 

If you like to live in the desert

 

It is a beautiful car!

 

Sure. But it is always good to have some facts
About 63% of homes are owner occupied.
About 60% of homes are single family detached homes.
If EVs only appeal to the 60% who can charge at home or the small additional that can charge at work it will still take a long long time for Tesla and other to saturate this market.

Mike

https://www.infoplease.com/us/comprehensive-census-data-state/housing-statistics-1225

 

It seems you don't understand economics very well. Solar is free and solar panels are coming down in price due to economies of scale. It's these same economies of scale that the oil industry has relied on to make gas so cheap in the US. Once a smaller and smaller market share of energy goes to gas/diesel those economies of scale won't work anymore therefore driving up the price of gas quite substantially. Also, someday soon I expect gas to actually be taxed at a higher rate than what it is now, a little close to what other countries are, maybe even to the amount where it builds in its true cost to society. More and more people are waking up to the reality of climate change.

 

isn't the same thing true about gas stations in the early stages? That if stations hadn't been built there would be shortages? Didn't the Model T buyer - many decades ago count on infrastructure building out? In fact, this is true with just about whatever product or service you can imagine. Rehashing such basic economics simply serves to do what? Instill fear?
And it's not like electric cars need to always supercharge anyway, as there is a gigantic option called charging at home, or charging at work .... some even tap on to their local street lights. Heck, many people don't even buy cars anymore. So the hand-wringing needn't be as severe as, "oh my God! what if superchargers don't grow fast enough !?!"

again wirh the economics 101?

Sorry, that statement fails to acknowledge that many supercharger stations are being retrofitted not only with solar, but battery backup as well. You don't call that an equalizer? Solar & wind using battery backup is not only renewable, it is storable. However, contrary to many people's fantasy, gasoline is non-renewable. That's right. The Earth is not filled with a giant liquid flammable creamy center that will go on in perpetuity.

oh my God! Costs very? Again, economics 101. that's just ike the case with gasoline, right? Don't we all pay widely swinging prices - even turning on where we are? So what do you think is going to happen when all of the fracked wells which are drying up quickly, (continually requiring 1,000's of more pads to be found & operated) - & when they are all gone? Will it not matter? because our generation will all be gone anyway? But when gasoline supplies do get very strict, the sun will still be shining & the wind will still be blowing, & battery backup will still be backing up.

untrue - early adopters took the risk that the system would eventually build out, and not go bankrupt. Early adopters costs for "fee juice", (just like adding solar so that you can get free electricity) are rolled into The Upfront cost. Again, it's just economics 101. Upfront costs are the same thing as (for example) a massive undertaking like the building of Hoover Dam? You invest a ton, then the next generations get to continually reap the rewards of those who went before them.

does that mean we are supposed to be jealous or envious because someone is getting a better deal than another? isn't that the nature of selling & buying most any product or service?

...... that too is incorrect. Musk has always said, and has committed to the principle that the supercharger network isn't set up to be a profit center, but rather something that pays for itself, plus pays for expansion & maintenance of its own existence.
.

 

Early gas stations weren't gas stations at all; they were general or hardware stores that sold petrochemicals as well. That's why I see large scale EV charge station rollout working (i.e., making a profit) when they make more money on the coffee, food, or TBD/fill-in-the-blank sales while they have a captive customer who pulled in because of the advertised "cheap" electricity they will promote.

Also, early large scale gas station companies were vertically integrated (also called a monopoly) controlling the product from the hole in the ground to the hole in the tank. Ironically, very similar to what Tesla is doing today.

 

How is that any different than Tesla "loyal customers"?

I lose sleep over how much damage that Toyota is causing to the environment with their ICEs including their hybrids and plug-ins. If you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem.

So you would rather give your hard earned cash to the medical industry for health issues caused by ICE impact on global warming.

 

Telsa had a nice range calculator on their site that gave an estimated range for a model accounting for speed, temperatures, wheel size, etc, digging into it, you could account for head light use, but it is now gone.

You might find this useful until you get the car.
EV Trip Planner

Tesla sold less than 200,000 in the US last year. Total light vehicle retail sales for the that time was over 17 million.
• U.S. vehicle sales 1978-2018 | Statistic

It's like when getting a Prius for the first time. The 10+ improvement in MPG lead to less concern over small shifts in gas prices.

I'd think a Tesla would be great for RVing; flat towable and you just unplug the RV for a few hours if 15 amp charging won't meet your needs.

Agree on the doors. The roof is common for segment Tesla sells in though. Making it standard for the Model 3 is another plus over its ICE rivals.

And there are many residents that can charge at home. Enough that a BEV company can sell to them without needing to sell to non-home charging-able while solving the charging issue for them. There is time to address that issue, and it is being addressed, without the need to pressure those people into a car that may not work for them.

Except, a portion of the energy required for refining comes from, and all the gas stations run on, electricity.

And localities are moving to address home car charging for such residents, and they aren't just California.

 

Here is the latest on model 3 deliveries. Apparently already 500 have been produced and are being delivered (California).

Tesla produces first batch of standard Model 3 vehicles - Electrek

 

But that 10% is what makes the car easily useful 100% of the time. I regularly drive on roads for maybe 5% of my trips but more than 50% of my miles where 65MPH will get you run off the road. Between me and major shopping centers, COSTCO, my grandkids. Between me and my former home and friends. Vacations. At 70 I'd be in the slowest 5%. Start with maybe 250 mile "range" and add in cold, rain and a bit of wind and the time between needed EV refills gets shorter and shorter even in best case traffic.

If I use it only as a commuter car or the short range car, it works.

But am I going to spend that kind of money on a car I can't take on those trips? It is on those trips I want comfort, quiet and convenience. Reliability too. And refuel-ability if I have to veer off the beaten path. So we take a V-6 28 MPG Avalon which I consider a big pig of a car. That does nothing for our overall carbon consumption.

Having looked at a random red Model 3 recently, I was impressed with the fit and finish. That is no longer an issue judging by a serious walk around of sample qty 1 looking for every exterior issue I had seen reported. Even the seams between panels were regular, the trim matched up perfectly. Only thing I noticed were small stone chips on the hood. Is the paint prone to that?

 

First, the post you are responding to is discussing the use by a specific user. If the car was going to be regularly used for long trips, I would not get, nor recommend, the short range Model 3, but the trip @bwilson4web will be taking his on is one he has done in an i3 REx, and even smaller car with @80 miles of EV range and @80 miles of range on gasoline. Even with the Model 3 SR, he'll be pulling off the highway less often than with that i3.

For another comparison, the Clarity PHEV has a hybrid range of about 280 miles. Traveling with the dog, I would be stopping around that often, but having to scan the credit card and fill up at every stop would get old soon. With a BEV, I'd plug in, and then walk the dog and do other things.

On a more general scope, the Model 3 competes in the segment with the BMW 3 series. If your familiarity with BMWs only extends to the ones that have passed you, that doesn't really provide a context. This statement should. The 3 series is BMW's Corolla. If an Avalon is your preferred trip car, a Corolla, even with Lexus badge, may not do regardless of how it's fueled.

The fact is that using a BEV for long trips requires a shift in thinking and planning, and even then fast charger coverage can be lacking on some routes. For those willing to do it, Tesla is really the only option at this time. Even when the other companies have BEVs of comparable range, the current infrastructure is lacking in comparison to the Supercharger one. Even if a full Supercharger station cuts the charge rate in half, that is still faster than the fastest of the others available.

Reductions in cost, weight, and even emissions has meant paint coatings are thinner on cars these days. So paint chips are the norm for nearly everyone. My Camry has them, as had our Prius, Sable, and Sonic.