4 gal E85, 5.6 gal E10, 2.5 gal E10

BTW, 2010 Prius was tested with E20 fuel in the CRC E-91 study: http://www.crcao.com/reports/recentstudies2012/E-91/CRC%20E-91%20Final%20Report%20120910.pdf

Even though the cars were coded by CRC again, it's easy to decode them as they left plenty of clues.

 

Sorry you got insulted. I wasn't referring to you or anyone in this thread.

Since you said the above I wanted to make sure future Prius owners reading this thread knew what could happen if they ran E anything fuel. Certainly as you stated above we wouldn't want to mislead visitors

Mike

 

Interesting thread!
My hat's off to the OP.

This is what happens when you combine a Marine with an engineering degree...two Priuses...and a little free time.
I'm looking forward to sifting through some of the data.

I'll leave the Great Temperance Debate to another thread...


BZ!

 

Always interesting talking about E fuels on Prius Chat

Does anyone have their own personal data on LTFT and STFT running straight E85 that they would want to share?

Mike

 

Bob,

Not that I'm doubting your results. But you let the gas sit in the container, then you put it into the car. That guy at the engine repair shop was talking about gas sitting in a carb, unused, for a long time. My argument is, I guess, that any precipitate and such would have been left behind in the container when you poured the results into the tank in the car. And would have been further filtered, as you used it, by the gas filter.

Just supposing: Put the alcohol-laden gas in the car, run it a bit, then let it set. Now any junk that's going to form will form, and in the injectors and other such places where it might do damage. On the other hand, there's the car just sitting there for a month... Na, forget it.

KBeck

 

Wonder what would or could happen if a car sat for 6 months with a tank of E85?

Mike

 

This is my 2nd post, so I'm new here. I also do not yet own a Prius, although I am shopping for one and will buy one shortly. I've read through this entire thread and feel compelled to make a few comments because, 1) My current vehicle is a Flex Fuel Vehicle, 2) I live in Iowa and have spent time planting/harvesting the corn used to make ethanol, and, 3) I raced NASCAR dirt track series for 12 years including 2 years driving an Alcohol Modified burning straight methanol.

I do find these experiment(s) interesting. Living in Iowa, when you go to the gas station, you will find that the lowest grade of gasoline (usually 87 octane) to be more expensive than the mid-grade gasoline (usually 89 octane) by about $0.10 per gallon. This mid-grade is 10% ethanol, with higher octane but with a lower cost. The most expensive blend (usually 91 or 92 octane) is the most expensive and does not contain alcohol. There are some exceptions in that some stations have only ethanol mix for all grades, but these are not as common (yet?) in my part of the state.

My experience is that fuel mileage is reduced when ethanol is added to the mix. This makes sense - alcohol contains less energy than pure gasoline. The fuel mileage goes down in my FFV the more alcohol is added. I cannot say which mix is the most cost efficient for sure, but my guess is that it's somewhat of a wash paying $0.10 less per gallon for E10 but at the same time getting slightly reduced mileage. I don't use E85 because I don't like going to the filling station more often.... even if it "might" save me a little money.

Field corn is not used for human consumption. It is used to feed livestock and make ethanol. Field corn (what you generally see when you drive across the state) has a different genetic/caloric/starch/protein/etc... content than corn grown as people food. Additionally, after ethanol has been distilled, the remaining material (grain/mash) is used as livestock feed with very high efficiency. I'm not saying that corn is the best source for ethanol, I'm just saying that making ethanol out of corn does not take food out of peoples mouths.

As alcohol content increases, a larger total quantity of fuel must be delivered to achieve comparable engine output. My methanol fueled race car used about 1 gallon for every 2 laps. Fuel tank, fuel lines, fuel pump, carb, and associated items were made specifically for alcohol use. The large quantity of fuel presented problems with cylinder wall wash (removal of lubrication) and increased deposition of fuel into the oil (getting past the rings). The good part was the engine ran cooler and a smaller radiator could be used.

I have no reservations whatsoever about putting ethanol in all my vehicles up to the maximum recommended in the owners manual.

I know some of this is a little off topic but I appreciate the opportunity to share.

 

Welcome to the forum. I find I get the best mpg's out of Iowa 89 octane gas than I do with any other state's gas from the Dakota's eastward. Been traveling the country for a few years now and Iowa gas has always been the highest mpg's hands down. Whatever you guys have in your fuel down there works great BTW, 3rd Gen Prius runs fine on E85 and blends down to E nothing and gets decent mpg's

Mike

 

Thanks for chiming in with the good info. However, the part about field corn not competing with food is not entirely correct.

First, field corn is used to produce (from Wiki):

• Cereal products including breakfast cereals, corn meal, hominy and grits
• Other processed human-food products including starch, oil, and sweeteners

Second, because high gas/ethanol/corn prices means more fields will be used to grow field corn at the expense of other "human" crops. Sure enough, the corn production for ethanol use is skyrocketing, driving corn prices and food prices in general:


Even the ethanol poster child, Brazil, is not without issues: practice of burning the fields before the harvest, the labor conditions of workers in the field, and the indirect impact for the Amazon forest and other environmentally sensible areas. If Amazon is destroyed to produce car fuel, I do have a major problem.

 

Greetings and Welcome!
Down here on the Redneck Riviera you can get E0 (sometimes...it really is) from some of the seedier Mom and Pop places that like to prey on the FUD that surrounds alkyhaul in fuel.
Motorcyclists and Boaters seem to be especially vulnerable.
Other than those places....it all E-10....all the time.
Since "my" Prius (2010 G3) isn't mine at all (company car) I did a very crude stare and compare at tanks of E0 versus E10 and I saw MAYBE a 2-mpg delta.
Certainly not worth the time and energy to seek out the stations that sell "REAL GAS HERE!"
Besides.....have you seen the restrooms in some of those Mom and Pop gas stations????

I have 2 motorcycles....three cars, two riding mowers, a push mower, a mulcher, a pressure washer and a genset....and I'm probably forgetting something. The point is.....if there's some kinda cataclysmic event that's going to strike E-10 burners?
I haven't seen it....and much of my equipment sits dormant for months at a time.
I respect people who dig into the issue...get past the FUD (like the OP is doing) and try to get some real data on the street.
Meanwhile....I burn E10 for the simple reason that that's what they pump. E85 is scarce in these here parts and so I don't have a good reason to burn it.

 

Hi fj. You bring up some good information and I'm not going to split hairs with you. The subject is quite complex and there are exceptions to every rule.

Having learned to drive a tractor at the age of 12, and also having been involved with agricultural in Iowa for my entire adult life, I will say that your information is valid and applicable, but still does not change the overall general statement that corn ethanol does not take food out of peoples mouths. It was not my intent to convey it did not compete in any way with human food production, I said it doesn't really take food out of peoples mouth. The vast overwhelming majority of U.S. field corn is used as non-human food and even your links support this statement.

My experience with farming in Iowa is that farmers grow the crop that will generate the most income. If corn prices are good, they will plant more acres of corn. If corn prices are low, they will plant more soybeans, wheat, oats, or other. When hay prices are favorable, more hay will be grown. When pork prices are up, they will raise more pigs. For all practical purposes, the acreage used for agricultural production is relatively unchanged. I have no personal experience with Brazil or any other country outside of the U.S. and so I will not attempt to comment on that.

Corn prices were approximately $1.00/bu to $1.25/bu from 1960 to the early 1970's. Pretty tough times when the grower doesn't get any raise in pay for almost 15 years and the price of fuel, land and machinery gets higher every year. From the early 1970's to the mid-2000's, again no consistent pay raise for another 20+ years. I don't begrudge farmers making more money off their corn crop now. The cost of the corn in a box of cereal is "pennies". The vast majority of the cost is in the processing, packaging, transportation, and marketing of the cereal.

Not to add more factors to the equation, but as crop prices go up, government crop subsidies and support payments go down. I think everyone can agree (even farmers) that they would prefer to make enough profit on their crop to pay their bills... as opposed to needing to get government checks in order to survive.

It is a very complex issue indeed

 

Me thinkin I was running E47 not E57 after reading your test results. I never seen a code in a couple tanks of what I ran. It's been so long that I could never dig up the fuel receipts to see the actual gallons used. It was Iowa E85 though

Mike

 

Tiffin has a huge flea market in the warm season. Well worth the visit if you get up there that time of year.

E53 will run excellent in your car. When you get up north you will find that the Meijer gas stations sell E85.

Safe travels
Mike

 

I will have to read the info on your plane. A search of the registration pulls up tons of info. I wired a Searey in the mid 90's for my dad. That plane went down many years ago and is sitting in his shop in many pieces My flying days are over after losing a close friend to an airframe failure.

Mike

 

Wonder if you could run Linux Mint with Techstream running in Wine or do it in Virtual Box running Win XP running Techstream? That would stop the attacks from rouge websites.

Mike

Mobile on my SGH-i717