4th generation coming 2015!

Discussion in 'Gen 4 Prius Main Forum' started by edmcohen, Nov 6, 2012.

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  1. edmcohen

    edmcohen Member

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  2. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    I like the overall look. I think the "newest" news was at the end: 4WD option.
     
  3. Oldwolf

    Oldwolf Prius Enthusiast

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    Wow! I wonder if it really bears any resemblance to what will finally roll of the assembly line?
     
  4. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

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    this must be fake..
     
  5. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    That's an artist rendering, not likely to have much to do with the real car.
    They do mention lower hood and different raked windshield, which I would expect. That can either be dramatically different or similar.

    We should not expect those wheels or flared fenders. The car may taper at the rear end, I doubt it will be as dramatic or muscular is rendered.

    I can't see a good reason to restrict the rear wheels drive to 37 mph, nor is it likely they really will get 60mpg.
     
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  6. edmcohen

    edmcohen Member

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    For me, the classiest detail is the change from torsion bar to double wishbone rear.
     
  7. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    That is indeed the biggest surprise for me as well. We know akido Toyoda wanted more exciting cars, but I don't know whether double wishbone will make the cut for a new platform. I am surprised its not multi-link. Ford found a way to make multi-link inexpensively in their focus/c-max platform, and I'm sure toyota is playing with it in their new platform, since it allows for better packaging than double wishbone.
     
  8. walter Lee

    walter Lee Hypermiling Padawan

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    The artist rendering on Motor Trend's website is goofy - the Prius doesn't need oversized fat high rolling resistant overweight wheels . o_O However, the next gen THS does needs to be lighter and smaller with more amp. It's not the cost of the THS but the added weight of the THS that matters most. I don't have an issue with the Prius' current windshield or front hood design but I don't like the Prius' rear view obstruction - I could lose that. :coffee: A optional rear wheel skirt and boat tail might help with the FE - albeit it might make the Prius look like a weiner mobile.:p
    More for our friends up north - optional engine compartment insulation - especially for the hood would help FE. If Toyota can raise the Prius' ICE thermal efficiency by 25 % to 50% more and keep the Prius's weight down - I pretty sure that the Prius's FE will jump signficantly -- especially up north.
     
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  9. Skoorbmax

    Skoorbmax Senior Member

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    I'm sure that picture is inapplicable to the final product. Good things in pipeline: ~60 mpg combined by the sounds of it, substantial increase in the PHV's capacity also.

    4WD is of little interest to me but many have wanted that.
     
  10. Dark_matter_doesn't

    Dark_matter_doesn't Prius Tinkerer

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    The biggest problem I've encountered is people's attitudes toward the Prius. Most people think "slow, poor performance" when the word "Prius" comes up, as if the vehicle can't get out of its own way. High MPG comes up as a secondary consideration. Toyota needs to work to counter the slow, poor performance perception thru advertising what the current vehicle can do and make the connection to their hybrid racing program which has been successful recently.

    Hopefully, the 4th gen Prius will also have Toyota's new high-efficiency ICE and significantly higher MPG and battery-only range/speed.
     
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  11. a_gray_prius

    a_gray_prius Rare Non-Old-Blowhard Priuschat Member

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    I'm a little amused at the artist's conception that's basically a cross between a 3rd gen Prius and an FT-86
     
  12. jdcollins5

    jdcollins5 Senior Member

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    I would hope the final production looks similar to the artist's conception. That is a nice looking automobile, especially a hybrid.
     
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  13. kgall

    kgall Active Member

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    How does getting away from the single swoop of the 2 and 3 gen Prius help the aerodynamics? Or does it?
     
  14. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    The single swoop requires a taller car increasing frontal area for the same driver visibility. The higher hood along with the taller car raises the center of gravity which harms handling. The penalty is not large but it is not optimal, it is more of a styling flourish than functional. You can do a lower hood with an angled windshield and get a lower cdA.

    Adding active grill shutters can also make the car more aerodynamic if it does not need the air for cooling. They can also help with ice warm up.

    These are two straightforward and inexpensive changes.

    Making the car wider with a more tapered back will also improve aerodynamics, but may reduce rear seat width. I guess we will have to wait and see on that one.

    For ideas about the CD here are some examples
    Shape Effects on Drag
    If the shape of the car is an airfoil we get a cd of 0.045. That is the idea of having the hood bumper airfoil like for best drag in the vw xl1, but we need to actually sit and see out of the vehicle, put part of a half airfoil on top making adding 0.09. We can approach 0.14 in a car that hold one person, but passenger shape and cargo mean we aren't going to be optimal and can get to about 0.19 (gm ev1,vw xl1) with small frontal area. Other styling and space requirements get us to the 0.24 tesla S and 0.25 prius.
     
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  15. kev12345

    kev12345 Junior Member

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  16. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    A 60 mpg, 4wd car with nice handling is an amazing improvement in 6 years. Fingers crossed the price stays about the same in 2012 dollars.

    Is it realistic, particularly the fuel economy bounce ? I'm a bit skeptical, but it at least seems at the edge of what might be possible. If the ICE average SFC improves from 36% to 40% that is 11% improvement. Knocking 150 pounds off is worth 2.5%. Improved Aero from 0.25 to 0.23 -- another 4%. Slippier tyres, another 1 - 2%. Improved electric drivetrain, another 1-2%.
     
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  17. walter Lee

    walter Lee Hypermiling Padawan

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    I think the Prius has enough muscle - it can accelerate very quickly and go over 100 mph but it is at a cost of getting significantly poorer MPG results. The Prius has a low horsepower to curb weight ratio which translates to higher fuel usage when accelerating than if its curb weight was less. If one is trying to get the best fuel efficiency out of the Prius (+60 mpg) then the driver has to avoid doing too many quick acceleration. If Toyota could magically drop the Prius' curb weight to 2000 pounds (the 3rd gen Prius curb weight is hefty 3042 pounds) while keeping its current horsepower rating - the Prius would not only get better fuel efficiency but could be high performance race car. Take example, the 1970 Datsun 240z, a classic sports car, had 151 horsepower(HP) and a curb weight of about 2330 pounds; the 240z could accelerate from 0 to 60 mph in 7.8 seconds and had a top speed of 122 mph. The 1970 Datsun 240z HP/curb weight ratio was a very high 6.48 HP/100 pounds of curb weight; if the Prius had this same race car power-to-weight-ratio and maintained its 130 HP then its curb weight would have to drop by 2006 pounds of curb weight (however, this is a fantastic fantasy diet where the Prius sheds 1/3 of its weight -1000 pounds of curb weight!) .
     
  18. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    +1
    While I like the idea, 7.8 seconds 0-60 is no longer sports car speed. A well handling car does not need to be fast to be fun to drive. It appeared from the double wishbone remark and lower weight, along with hopefully lower cg will hopefully make the car more fun to drive. I'm not expecting they even get to the mazda 3 level though.

    We can't go back to 1970 regulations, and safety and emissions regulations have added quite a bit of cost and weight. I wish we could streamline the regulations to only include the ones that really are necessary.

    The good news is that if this is true, is that the car might drop to 2900lbs. You could in a rather straightforward way up the hp to 190 which would get you to around 8.1 0-60 time. I don't think it will happen, but simply a lithium battery option, stronger motors, and di in the current ice would make it.
     
  19. dipper

    dipper Active Member

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    Can we get super caps by 2015? Since Toyota is testing them in their LeMans races, maybe they can utilize it to lighten the car with less battery.
     
  20. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    Super-caps' lifetime capacity loss and usable life is very low. In a race car where every race you replace with something new, not a problem. In a consumer vehicle that needs to last for 150K miles, it is not going to happen with current technology. In 3 years... maybe. But not likely.
     
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