4th generation coming 2015!

Discussion in 'Gen 4 Prius Main Forum' started by edmcohen, Nov 6, 2012.

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  1. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    I did and I've read enough of your other posts to read between the lines. ;) Like I said, exaggeration.
     
  2. vinnie97

    vinnie97 Whatever Works

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    I could never, ever buy a Leaf with its limited range. A Tesla, on the other hand, which can go 3 times as far...that's very attractive but that price!
     
  3. Sergiospl

    Sergiospl Senior Member

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    But, I don't want a fuel cell EV either(filling stations). I don't want a BEV(range), at least for now.
     
  4. Felt

    Felt Senior Member

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    Great discussion. It demonstrates why manufacturers market a variety of vehicles.

    I was an avid PC reader when the Volt first came out, as well as the PIP. I concluded both were great vehicles, but they are both niche vehicle ... that just did not fit into my niche. My niche has not changed, and to date, neither vehicle can beat the standard hybrid Prius lift back. With 104,500 miles on my 2010, I have found few faults. I am currently planning my 6th cross-country trip, and have no hesitation about going in a vehicle with over 100k miles. In addition, it still looks great, rides comfortable, and thanks to the Michelin tires, road noise is minimal.

    Thanks Toyota. Now don't let us down with the next generation. I can wait for Toyota to make things right .... but I know there are others that must act sooner rather than later. I am just frustrated with the absence of information. To me, the reading, studying, and analyzing, must precede the purchasing. Toyota has thus far, denied me of that pleasure.
     
  5. GregP507

    GregP507 Senior Member

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    I think the design could improve. I understand the shape is critical for achieving a drag ratio of 0.24-0.25, but in spite of some added "pieces of flair" it still looks a bit like a pregnant guppy.
     
  6. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    I take issue with that comment and see this as an opportunity to clarify assumptions. (So, thanks!)

    The tax deduction working out to $300 to $400 on your return hardly qualified as an incentive. It was basically a nice "thank you" for purchasing. Prius exceeded mainstream minimum (60,000 annual) prior to any credit being offered and it certainly wasn't comparable.

    The quantity limit back then was 60,000 tax-credits per automaker before phaseout began. That's a far cry from the 200,000 available now and even smaller when you can consider the market sold 17 Million new vehicle purchased per year in this country. That has since fallen to around 12 Million.

    The maximum amount was $3,150 per purchase, starting in 2006, well after Prius had already become well established. The purpose was to push hybrids deeper into the mainstream. The $7,500 available now is more than double and with the intent of introduction instead.

    It's unfortunate that history isn't clear. But finding out explains why there are so many misunderstandings about automaker decisions. The economic factors are quite complex. Not having the whole story and dealing with audiences expecting to-the-point responses miss out on important detail... then spread that vague to others.

    Hopefully, this post was helpful.
     
  7. Sergiospl

    Sergiospl Senior Member

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    Someone once said the Fisker Karma was the best looking vehicle ever. With its 89 cu ft of passenger volume, it is rated as a subcompact. See, you can have "styling", function, not so much.

    I think Prius should really improve on its 0.25. Aptera was 0.15. Aptera Electric Car - Jay Leno's Garage - YouTube

    Ok, before someone said that I was asking! No, I am not asking for a 3-wheeler Prius
     
  8. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Know your audience! That point cannot be stressed enough.

    You want Toyota to provide information now, well ahead of rollout. That's what enthusiasts want, not mainstream consumers.

    The audience they're targeting Prius at is those who research shortly before purchasing, sometimes at the dealer itself. Those are ordinary people who would otherwise purchase a Camry or Corolla. The masses who buy high-volume profitable vehicles are the audience, those who often simply aren't paying attention to the automotive market until they are ready to replace their current vehicle. It presents many challenges for sustainable sales.

    That's an extremely fickle group to deal with. They do little online. Just look at Prius owners for perspective. There are over 3 Million here, yet membership of this forum is just 112,567 right now... and not all of them even own a Prius. That's about 3.5% representation, hardly any sort of majority. And how many of them joined the forum to learn more about their purchase, after the fact?

    As much as we'd like more, it's just plain not realistic. The competition, both within and from others, is too great. There is much at risk. The very fact that Toyota has been willing to alter plans along the way is something we should be thankful for. Having that flexibility and the willingness to acknowledge change is very important.

    Want some more perspective? Just look at GM. Enthusiasts still have very little detail about the next Volt, even though the rollout is about 6 months away. For that matter, they don't even know who the audience will be.
     
  9. inferno

    inferno Senior Member

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  10. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    I'm wondering if this just means that the PHV will use the "original" design and the regular hybrid gets the "back to the drawing board" version.
     
  11. fumbling

    fumbling Junior Member

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    I don't think there's any way the next gen Prius will look like the C-HR. I think it'll look similar to the Gen III with smoother lines and the Lexus grill that's made its way down to the new Camry.
     
  12. goldfinger

    goldfinger Active Member

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    I could see the C-HR as the Prius C. Its the Goldilocks model. You need porridge for baby bear.
     
  13. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    You can definitely have both. The Model S is larger and more aerodynamic than the Prius. :) Well, it matches it for total drag area despite being larger anyway.

    Glad you're not asking for a 3-wheeler. That would not be cool. Hahaha
     
  14. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    That's the way it sounds. That would be sort of a slap in the face to EV enthusiasts. I.e. You're not worth us going through the trouble of redesigning the car for you. It would be sort of what the did with the Rav4 EV. I couldn't entertain the idea of buying it because it was based on the old body style that came out in what 2005-2006?
     
  15. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    I wouldn't even buy a brand new car, only a used one if my Prius got totalled. And, unfortunately, it would be a conventional. Toyota lost me with their Camry's smallest in class chair. If I was a shorter guy, the Prius and Camry would work out of the gate.
    I had a good laugh sitting in a Leaf last week. Goofy seating position. Yuck.

    But hey, I guess we'll see a new Prius revealed next year.
     
    #3435 cycledrum, Dec 28, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2014
  16. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Different design, it never said "old body" design. It could both be fresh, just one sportier than the other.
     
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  17. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    Good point. Thanks oh great leader of the white north. :)
     
  18. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    lol. Great Leader now sounds dictator-ish (thanks DPRK). :p
     
  19. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    Hmm. Let's see... 84 miles over 4 hours would be an average speed of 21 mph which is close to the ideal efficiency speed of a typical electric car. An EV is about twice as efficient going 15-20 mph as it would be going 75-80 mph.

    An electric car without a heater uses maybe 300-500 Watts sitting still in traffic so maybe 0.5 kWh every hour or 1.0 kWh with stereo cranked up, headlights on etc. That's hardly noticable on Model S and since you would be driving slower and more efficiently the total energy use of the trip would likely be smaller than usual.

    Crank up the A/C and that takes 2.5 kWh per hour, worst case, so an extra 7 kWh in addition to the usual 3 kWh of A/C you might have used at full speed. Again, not a problem on a Tesla.

    In cold winter, the heater would draw 6 kW worst case and likely less. That would be an extra 16 kWh in addition to the usual 8 kwh you would have used at full speed although usually the heater element runs at full power to bring the car up to a comfortable temperature and then runs intermittently to maintain it.

    So, worst case, 24 kWh for full blast heat in the dead of winter plus 4 kWh for just being turned on plus headlights and music for 4 hours. Then add 84 miles at 300 Wh per mile at slow average speeds with some loss of efficiency due to snow-crusted roads for about 25 kWh. That adds up to 53 kwh.

    That might push the edge of a 60 kWh Model S but is no problem for an 85 kWh pack. That would, of course, be under these unusual worst-case conditions and you would need to plug in and recharge on a 168 mile total round trip.

    More typically, a long traffic delay like that would probably take about the same or less energy than your usual trip because of the efficiencies of traveling slower.
     
    #3439 Jeff N, Dec 29, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2014
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  20. GregP507

    GregP507 Senior Member

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    Range-anxiety is the reason why an auxiliary power unit (APU) should be an option on every EV. It wouldn't need to be a Range-Extender type trailer. It wouldn't need the longevity of a regular power-plant engine, because it would only be used briefly in emergencies, therefore it could be a smaller, high-rpm, high-output engine, which wouldn't take up much space. Even if it couldn't provide enough output to drive the car, a quarter to half an hour charging by the side of the road might be a favorable option compared to getting a tow.
     
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