5 Seat Prime finally arrives

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by civicdriver06, Mar 7, 2019.

  1. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    A fifth seat would mean nothing to me (it wasn't big enough for an actual person in my 2004 - even my mom didn't fit and she's 4'10" and 95 pounds). Car Play would be a turn-off since I won't own an Apple product. The 360 camera means very little.

    I would like lane trace assist but I wouldn't trade the entire car for that alone.
     
  2. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Ditto. I’ll only upgrade if the cargo area is enlarged. I can’t put a cargo net and a cargo box is too tall. I also miss the underfloor storage.
     
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  3. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    I understand there is storage under the battery where the spare tire belongs ;)
     
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  4. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    I have been driving my PRIME as a 2 seater from day 1. I only used rear seats up maybe twice. If they get lid of the rear seats and put bigger battery for a longer range. Now they are talking my next vehicle.
     
  5. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Gen II has 4.5 seats at most. There is no legroom whatsoever for the middle person; they are forced to straddle the battery-pack and share space with the person on either side. Headroom was already cramped and got reduced a little more with that next-gen.

    Realistically, it comes down to how that middle is used. For some, that seat is never used and they must give up some storage space plus an armrest. You want more seating room, you wait for Corolla PHV.
     
  6. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    I would say the Gen II Volt didn't have a middle seat at all. You'd have to be a double-amputee to sit there. I couldn't sit there and I'm 5'6". A baby in a car seat would probably work as long as the people on either side were super thin.
     
  7. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    It's there because the press, market research, and gen1 owners said they wanted a middle seat. It is the safest spot to stick a kid.
    The better packaging of the battery meant there was no penalty for installing a fifth seat for a child or those that wanted one just in case.
     
  8. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Listening to them was a fool's errand... the fundamental mistake "know your audience" draws attention to. GM played the tax-credits and early-adopters ignored the signs.

    Those wanting to purchase a vehicle for family transport didn't want a compact hatchback anyway. It should have been obvious the technology would ned to be in a larger vehicle.

    That is why Camry hybrid, RAV4 hybrid, and Corolla hybrid are all better PHV choices here. So what happens in Europe, may not be what happens for this market.

    In other words, understand who you ask.
     
    #28 john1701a, Mar 15, 2019 at 1:38 PM
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019 at 1:50 PM
  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Where, oh where, can one get a PHEV version of a Camry or Rav4? Will families still want one after seeing the loss of 6 cubic feet of cargo space?

    The new Corolla shrank; it has less passenger and cargo space than the Volt, so is even less of a family car than the Chevy without even having a plug. And yet it seats five.
     
  10. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    2020 Corolla Hybrid
    - headroom = 38.3/37.1 in
    - legroom = 42.3/41.4 in
    - cargo = 13.0 cu-ft

    2019 Volt
    - headroom = 37.8/35.8 in
    - legroom = 42.1/34.7 in
    - cargo = 10.6 cu-ft

    Why are you spreading such blatantly false information?
     
  11. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    You know all too well Toyota has been focused on getting TNGA-based platforms out to as much of their fleet as possible. The goal is to convert roughly 80% by the end of 2023. That's an aggressive pace for such a major undertaking, but the results are enormous... lower cost, improved performance, and reduced emissions. That's a mammoth goal for a 10-million-per-year output. What other automaker is pushing that hard to advance what they produce overall?

    You also know that Toyota is starting with Corolla PHEV, which is why that was conveniently left off the list. It's the best selling vehicle worldwide, so it makes sense to choose that. And since the new Corolla hybrid is only just this month starting wide-scale rollout, expecting a PHEV already is clearly a lack of patience. Keep in mind, the new RAV4 hybrid is only now just rolling out too.

    You aren't taking into account the most important part of Toyota's timing either. It's affordability. Everything they do is fundamentally planned around delivering something that will appeal to both dealer & buyer. Both are important customers. Both what a good price.
     
  12. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    There is a Plugin Corolla? We are just getting the Hybrid, not a Plugin.
     
  13. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    China is the first market to get Corolla PHV.
     
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  14. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    I'd love a RAV4 PHV. I understand it will be expensive (see Outlander PHEV) but hopefully by then, costs have come down and Toyota can roll it out with a smaller upcharge.

    The next gen X5 PHEV (X5 xDrive45e iPerformance) will get 50 miles (not sure if it's WLTP or NEDC rating... it'll be roughly 40 miles EPA estimated) but it will be a significant jump from the current paltry range. Battery capacity jumps from 9.2kWh to 24kWh. The current X5 (X5 xDrive40e) is EPA rated at 14 miles. Unfortunately, we'll have to wait for a while as it won't arrive in US shores until late 2020 as a 2021 model (European launch first).

    As a smaller vehicle, I'd like 30-40 miles in the RAV4 PHV. Given the current situation, I'm hoping closer to 40 to even higher by the time the hypothetical RAV4 PHV launches. That said, Toyota has mentioned it has no plans for BEV or PHEV versions of the RAV4 which is disappointing.

    Guess we have to turn to the Prime and hope that gets 40-50 miles for next gen with a non-compromised cargo area.
     
  15. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    We know it will be a painfully long wait. Toyota has much stage setting to take place in the meantime. The BEV model of C-HR for China is in the works. We'll get some type of Prius upgrade (hypothetically) during the wait too. It does make sense that eventually the option will happen. The tradeoff is the longer it takes, the better the battery tech will be. Like the computer industry, there's always some improvement in the works.
     
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  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    I am not.

    EPA interior volumes(cubic feet).
    gen 2 volt
    passenger - 90
    luggage - 19

    2020 Corolla sedan
    passenger - 89
    luggage - 13

    2019 Corolla sedan
    passenger - 98
    luggage - 13
    Compare Side-by-Side



    The difference in the Volt's luggage listing is because GM only listed the space up to the seat backs in their marketing. The EPA one includes the space above that, because a car's total volume is used to determine what size class they belong too.

    But you knew that, since it has been the case since the gen1 Volt. You also lied by omission by leaving the hip and shoulder measures out.
    2020 Toyota Corolla Specs & Options
    Plug In Hybrid For Sale: 2018 Volt Pricing | Chevrolet

    No, I left it off that list because if the Volt was too small to be considered for a family vehicle, as you claim in the following quote, then so is the Corolla.
    As for the Corolla PHEV coming to China, it is China. Auto makers have to offer plug ins there in order to sell their other models. What plug ins that are offered there is as indicative of their actions elsewhere as selling a plug in in just California.
     
  17. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    You mean we need to wait for the government to mandate EVs? Good luck with that. Too much oil lobbying for that to happen.
     
  18. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    We all know how this works. It's usually either post a vague reference or a divert with a red herring. I'm not the one doing either.

    The other tactic commonly used is dismiss the issued being raised. People complained about Volt-1 head room. So when GM did nothing about that with Volt-2 (in fact, head room was slightly reduced), the problem was just dropped as no longer a concern. Head & Leg dimensions have overwhelmingly been the focus of seating size discussion, so that's what the response included. With respect to "cargo" discussions, you must list the actual height/length/width to address transport capability properly.


    Lastly, there's an obvious effort to restrict scope. If it isn't available here or now, it doesn't exist. That's just plain wrong. Toyota's expansion of plug-in offerings by diversifying their "Prime" enhancement is exactly what GM had been pressed to do for years, knew it needed to for business success, but chose not to regardless of the consequences.

    Toyota choosing to spread their technology to a variety of choices is a wise move. So what if Corolla PHV doesn't fit a family of 5 well. That's what Camry & RAV4 are for. You want a larger interior, you purchase a larger vehicle. That is also why Avalon & Highlander are offered as hybrid models. Toyota is preparing for large-scale electrification.

    What's happening here is quite different... vague... divert... dismiss... restrict.
     
    #38 john1701a, Mar 17, 2019 at 9:51 AM
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2019 at 9:58 AM
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  19. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    That's why early-adopter sales shouldn't be taken in any way as representative of mainstream penetration potential. All those heavily subsidized sales do is prove out the technology... which is great... but nothing worthy to gauge demand upon.

    This discussion of a 5-seat Prime is a highlight of Toyota testing the waters. Just like the intrusion of cargo-space by the battery-pack, it is pre-mainstream real-world study. They have learned the value of research-by-trial.

    So when certain people here raise a big stink about a configuration during these early-market rollouts, they need to be reminded about perspective. Toyota is extremely aware that no government funding or mandate should be counted upon for help with sales. It is up to each automaker to find their own way to appeal to their own loyal customers. For Toyota to retain their 10-million-per-year sales, they must do what works for them.

    What I find most interesting about a particular thread like this is how newbies are introduced to what those of us with many years of observation have witnessed many times now. Toyota will respond to customer feedback. They take online comments seriously and respond in a constructive manner. Rhetoric is filtered out to find a high-volume solution. Watching the challenge being addressed is fascinating for those who truly want to change the status quo.
     
  20. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    That used to be true, but Prius Team has been AWOL from here for quite a while. I think they deleted their account.

    Toyota listens to government mandates like China. That was my point. We may need to wait for the federal or state government ot act before Toyota adds EVs. :(
     
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