70 mph EV only mode.

It's the EV limit but not the point at which the gasoline engine must be spinning.

 

when your turning the ice just for lubrication then your losing a lot of energy from the battery in spining the ICE without burning feul... and so lose a lot of EV range.

better place a electric pomp to do that.

but then again the ice needs to turn to prevent the mg to overspin if i am correct...

or is this not the case with this mod???....

 

At 69 MPH, MG1 would be spinning at 10,000 RPM (backward) before the ICE need to spin. MG1 is rated at 10k RPM but Toyota never let it spin that high. Even the official 2G PHEV Prius only goes up to 60 MPH.

 

The Ewert Bros. (Ewert Energy Systems) produced second and
more quality onboard day-light video. In addition to addressing some
of the points raised in this thread, we can see towards the end their
new smaller frontend based on Lilliput carputer display..
:rockon:

PS I'd would certainly appreciate more details like revealing at least MG2 & MG1 motor
and inverter temperatures during the driving profile (rpm might be propietary to their hack)
Also some long-term durability test with published tranny wear and tear should be done.
After that I'll be 99% satisfied, currently only at 97% ..

Also meassuring economy in Wh/mi or Ah while in the EV mode as it is the case in any other good
electric vehicle would be much nicer than showing "999MPG".. See Tesla/eBox/RAV4 EV w. Palm etc.

 

If I convert my Prius to PHEV, I would use that kind of technology. It is the best I have ever seen. I hope they work on the LiFePO4 version.

 

Yep. It's fairly obvious that acceleration/power is pretty limited above 55mph as the battery/motor have to work overtime to spin the engine and overcome air resistance, but for short jaunts on the highway, it looks awesome. Failing that, their enhanced hybrid mode seems to maximize fuel economy there.

Now if they could get the overall price cut in half, it's be a lot more palatable.

 

This conversion is tested for/tailored/funded by commercial outfit called Plug-in Conversions, they used Nilar and nowadays settled on GP NiMH batteries. However, the system from Ewert Bros. is being also tested with LiFePO4 by additional parties, check the "Bristol PHEV" thread for more info or contact them directly..

 

ok.... i made a comment about the fake SOC going up so the prius will use more MG power instead of ICE.

and that Hymotion and BMS+ already use this to get better highway MPG and that i notice ( i use BMS+ ) that i can also go op to 100kmph on electric only just like in this video.

and now the second and new video this fake SOC is taken out of the screen..........

this enhanced EV mode is to me not that enhanced than what is already available.. its more the battery tech with the new big Nmih battery's and Litium that pluginsuplys is giong to use with this mod that really is what give;s it the edge.

 

Nikki, thanks for clues inside the continuous extra coverage on your blog..
HSD Simulator: Toyota Prius - Power Split Device

In order to keep the HSD happy it's necessary to have all three of the major components:
MG2-MG1-ICE within their roughly nominally specified boundaries and efficiencies.

1/ PHEV conversion - not physically messing with the front drivetrain
@70mph => [MG2: 4160rpm] + [MG1: -4594rpm] + [ICE: 1728rpm / fuel cut= *1-2kW spin?]

2/ EV conversion - Steve's brutal hack ver1 - ICE gutted
@70mph => [MG2: 4160rpm] + [MG1: -10816rpm] + [ICE: 0rpm]

3/ EV conversion - Steve's brutal hack ver1 - ICE gutted
@42mph => [MG2: 2450rpm] + [MG1: -6400rpm] + [ICE: 0rpm]

--
4/ EV conversion proposal - Steve's brutal hack ver2 code name "Mesuge"
(ICE gutted but "something" is still spining down there)

@ (32) - 65mph - (80)
=> [MG2: 3835rpm] + [MG1: -4688rpm] + [**MysterySpinner: (1043) - 1467rpm - (2120)]

// <32mph no spinner at all, so we have 3 modes/speed tresholds [0 <-32 <-65 <-80mph]

Preliminary calculations show that top <65mph would be the best compromise among
MG2-MG1-MysterySpinner, which is a decent speed for most of the EV people. Upto 80mph
optional "spike" possible (with 50kW time lag hah), once in a while, not for regular use. It
will stay in the green comfort zone, but who needs pushing air at 80mph anyway. Bring
on the efficiency map/rpm for MG1/2 to decide this one! Similarly and more importantely,
regen can drop into "ineffective" RPM if ones is to drive with 65-80mph setting (spinner)
activated in city traffic, so this has to be watched by the soft/look up table and dropped
to lower level. This might sound as nitpicking about few % of efficiency, but optimization
is the rule of the game here. In addition to described PSD limitations it will also depend
on batt. pack etc.

**Toyota's potential nightmare aka who needs then stinking-overpriced-delayed OEM EVs
Hint: that MysteryMan is not only of RPM but CasanoWatt-Torquenstein importance too!
--

These are just approx. numbers from the graph linked above - can be calculated precisely
(green band ok, orange is close to danger zone&inefficient, and red stands for bad!). It's
clear that Steve's all electric mod "ver1" without installed ICE needs some work (perhaps
spin the PSD to ~1500rpm @ 65mph), or just to keep it simple and drive only <42mph.

*http://techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/cars/warpstealth.html
http://prius.ecrostech.com/original/Understanding/Contents.htm
http://prius.ecrostech.com/original/Understanding/PowerSplitDevice.htm
http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3673
http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-ii-prius-technical-discussion/33278-does-ice-ever-spin-no-fuel.html

 

I swear my mileage goes up on the highway at 70-80 mph. Looks like the EV mode kicks in. When you are on a downslope at this speed, you can be almost entirely on the EV mode. MPG goes up to 80+.

 

so your using this upgrade? or you see this on your normal prius?

 

I see that on my stock Prius daily. I can drive 130 km/h on a downslope with with ICE spinning but not consuming any fuel and the only thing which powers the car is basically electric motor. And on MFD you can see arrows from battery towards electric motor.

And higher the SOC, more likely you have a chance of driving on electricity even at higher speeds. But of course, it works only when the load on the car is quite low. I think Prius detects low load and higher SOC and automatically goes electric.

So probably those guys just played around with SOC and loads Prius computers "see" or interpret. Basically they have risen the power to 20 kW and above, while original software would probably permit only few kW of electric load to kick in electric only mode at higher speeds.

 

If our understanding and Ewert's claim about reaching 70mph thanks primarily to "ICEspin" is a honest one (not a drop of gas used) then there is only possible explanation. That they hacked/reconstructed the OEM firmware to take more energy from MG2 and channel it to MG1 (or feed it directly from its inverter) in order to spin the noncombusting ICE to these speeds, which means almost at ~2000rpm.. They claim that the test car went to special emission validation tests at Argonne labs., in the video they briefly mentioned the trickery around cat temp etc. Evidently the car in the video switches smoothly from one mode of operation to another. That's all suggesting rather high level hack into the system. The real bomb though would be possible compatibility with the all electric type of conversion..

 

That video hurts my head. They seriously need to stabilize the camera. Seriously. I'm not epileptic, but I wanted to have a seizure watching that.


The achievement is great, no doubt! I'd love to be able to get higher speeds on electric only.

 

950-975 rpm and you now this will useup some lovely batteryt energy that i prefer to use on moving the car and not on spinning the ICE

but you still need to spin it.. or damage the mg's in the planatairi gear

the gen3 2010 gets a higher mg RPM.. so maybe thats done for keeping in mind a plugin version lateron.

 

normal Prius

 

Are you sure that 950-975 rpm is enough at the top speed of 70mph, check my big post and the link about MG2-MG1-ICE interdependency on the previous page, likely you have to spin it a bit higher at that speed. According to some sources it's 1-2kW of wasted energy.. Also if you dig into that famous Oak Ridge Labs Prius tear down study, they also claim additional >2kW losses on that E-CVT gearbox thingy alone etc.

Clearly, this Prius car (gen2) as the whole package has some serious hardwired inefficiencies, which are hard/impossible or not worthy to overcome for the diy/hack EV community. It should be taken as it is was desgined = good mid-sized hatch, made on purpose as gasoline hybrid.

And this shows in direct comparison to full EVs, where PHEV/EV Prius (gen2) gets >>200Wh/mi *economy, which is a far cry from straight EVs with <<150Wh/mi..

It's classic "Catch 22", there are no suitable vehicle platforms for EV conversions, no real/massproduced OEMs fleets to speak about, so we have to deal with these compromises.

I'll ge glad if the Ewert bros. take the time and address at some point (as soon as possible) our basic questions like MG2/MG1 inverter/motor temperatures & rpm during their EV mode of operation upto 70mph. The pricetag of their system has to be justified, this is not a rant, just cold analysis.

I'm gravitating towards the conclusion that the best bang for the money with the Prius platform ever possible is Nikki style BMS+ type of conversion/update based on 2nd hand OEM NiMH packs, which makes for a good mpg hybrid but very short range, basically city EV. The chances for substantial price drop of Prius based PHEV >30mi kits in the future is slim, so that's better to wait out for real full EVs instead or perform diy conversion of different vehicle..

---
* it's a mess different speeds/standards/tests,
where is some reliable gov. driving cycle study?

Google claims ~139Wh/mi combined city/traffic flat land & no A/C
EAA-PHEV assuming <35 mph, ~210 Wh/mile (260 Wh/mi from grid)
Computer model (http://privatenrg.com/) claims steady @55mph ~203Wh/mi (before plug)
if I'm not mistaken steady @55 is always close to official combined driving cycle so
>200Wh/mi before charging seems reasonable.

 

replace the ICE with a electric motor to do the turning?

i wonder what will happen if you remove the ICE and lett the plan gear ICE ring only turn....?? is the resistance from the ice needed to keep the mg;s from overspinning or...?

 

Yes, that's the basic question, which I'd like the Ewerts to respond to..
Perhaps as the MG1 spins the ICE (shaft) at ~950-2000rpm it doesn't need any extra load/torque from there. In this scenario, full EV conversion would be super easy. But incl. some extra losses from the hybrid design arrangement as mentioned previously, so it would be EV with some limitations but certainly one of the better options currently available..