800+ Mile Club

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Fuel Economy' started by F8L, Jul 25, 2012.

  1. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    May I ask, what is not, and what is close? Didn't quite get your point.
     
  2. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    There are other approaches including 'teams' driving one car in shifts. However, too often these efforts are used to advocate a particular style of driving and IMHO abusive of the unpaid team members.

    This is how I did it: Efficient driving for a 1,000 mile tank | PriusChat
    • Understanding the commitment: 1000 miles / 22 mph ~= 45-46 hours, seat time.
      • All trips take over 1 hour so the 5-7 minute warm-up penalty is diluted by efficient driving.
        • 1.5 miles warm-up will be at ~35 MPG ( 1.5 mi / 35 MPG = 0.043 gal)
        • 15 miles at efficient 25 mph will be ~100 MPG ( 15 mi / 100 MPG = 0.15 gal)
        • (1.5*35)+(15*100) / (1.5+15) ~= 94 MPG (16.5 mi / 0.193 gal = 85.5 MPG true)
        • 30 miles at efficient 25 mph (30 mi / 100 MPG = 0.30 gal)
        • (31.5 mi / 0.343 gal = 91.8 MPG true)
      • Bring good music and podcasts, it is boring!
      • Take pictures every ~100 miles to track progress
        • "Sh*t happens" so don't worry about a restart!
    • Mapped routes to support 24-25 mph around town without becoming a road hazard to other drivers.
      • Use less-traveled, four lanes so following traffic can pass
        • Use 'flashers' to help others know it is a slow car
        • Shift lanes to let 'right-hand' passer go by
      • Shifting work hours to avoid the rush hour traffic.
      • Cruise control set to 24-25 mph based on route.
      • Shift into "N" if descending a shallow grade and the engine is off.
      • Using neighbor hood 1-2 miles to support 25 mph, warm-up, with "N" glides.
      • Temperate and dry weather so no heater or AC.
        • Use alternate car/transportation if bad weather shows up.
    • Preparation
      • Max inflate tires
        • alignment
      • Scangauge II or equivalent to monitor engine coolant and engine rpm
      • Change oil, air filter, and transaxle oil and then drive 2-5,000 miles before stunt
      • Before fill-up
        • Drive 20 minutes above 45 mph to warm-up car
        • Do a forced-charge before warm-up (hold with brake and floor accelerator)
        • Fill-up properly (I inverted the pump handles and only got a partial fill.)
    • Calibrations and metrics
      • Tire size to match odometer, trip meter, mile markers, and GPS
      • mph vs MPG chart to know what speed gives 100 MPG (highest car records)
      • Cruise control minimum speed: 23 mph, too easily falls out so set 24-25 mph to avoid trip-out
      • tank capacity: 12.1 gallons, 2.1 gallons after 'flash', carry spare 1 gal when flash starts
        • Monitor energy flow display, arrows go away when last of gas is gone.
    Bob Wilson
     
    #162 bwilson4web, Nov 9, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2015
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  3. CR94

    CR94 Senior Member

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    1600 kilometers is not more than 1000 miles, although it's more than 994 miles.
     
  4. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Oh, I see what you mean. Then I correct my statement to "more than 1609.344km" to be exact. :)

    Here is one of those Japanese Hyper Miler's blog report. 4th column is the distance driven in between each fueling. He is claiming over 1000 miles or 1609.344 km driven from a single tank of gas routinely with average fuel efficiency of 35.52km/L or 83.54mpg .
    [​IMG]
     
    #164 Salamander_King, Nov 9, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2015
  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    To maximize distance, use 17-19 mph but that requires manual speed control. With a properly filled tank of high-energy, straight gas, one should be looking at over 50 hours of seat time. Some folks at Argonne Labs suggested ~140 MPG is the maximum but they have dynos.

    Before doing a maximum range marathon, I would want to do a test, a 1.21 gallon test (i.e., 10% of a full tank.) For the test, we're talking:
    • 140 * 1.21 ~= 170 miles
    • 170 miles / 18 mph ~= 9.45 hours, 9:30 hrs
    This would be a 'butt-buster' BUT before wasting time on a 'bowling trophy', the test must be done.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #165 bwilson4web, Nov 10, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2015
  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    Upon reflection, I can use the Scanguage II which has a three-four digit, trip MPG display. I can run a pair of two-hour, 18 mph tests. If the Scanguage II indicates more than 100 MPG, then there is a possibility of beating my own record. The only question being by how much.

    If I reach 1,000 miles @18 mph, we're looking at 56 hours of seat time . . . owch! Assuming 100 MPG, 10 gallons, there would be 2.1 gallons remaining . . . 210 miles or 12 more hours . . . a total of 68 hours of seat time. OWCH!

    Well I am curious about the peak MPG and spending 4 hours, a pair of 2 hour tests makes sense.

    Bob Wilson
     
  7. Anthony H.

    Anthony H. New Member

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    IM TRYING TO MAKE IT HERE ON THIS TANK OF GAS!! Lol. #800mpt
     

    Attached Files:

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  8. Robert Holt

    Robert Holt Senior Member

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    A MAN A PLAN PANAMA !
    Given these posts, would a plausible plan to achieve an 800-mile tank in highway driving be:
    1. Wait for day with North winds at 20-30 mph all along the East coast and ambient temperature in the 60-75 range.
    2. Start with car and ICE at normal operating temperature.
    3. Fill tank up to top of filler tube with Summer-blend, no-ethanol "E0" fuel.
    4. Fill tires to maximum sidewall pressure.
    5. Remove full size spare and all emergency gear from trunk.
    6. Drive South from Fairfax, Virginia, to Daytona Beach , Florida, on I 95 following the slowest possible traffic in the right lane, while Detouring onto parallel sections of Route 1 where feasible to lower average speed.

    What have I forgotten? (Besides finding a good divorce lawyer!)

    Would anyone have other good 800-mile routes they can suggest, preferably with no minimum speed limits?
     
  9. Starship_Enterprius

    Starship_Enterprius Active Member

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    An extra canister of fuel. Oh and since you've waited for the wind on your back, a sail would also be a nice add on... just kidding.
     
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  10. DonDNH

    DonDNH Senior Member

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    Denver to St. Louis - almost downhill all the way.
     
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  11. Robert Holt

    Robert Holt Senior Member

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    I know you are kidding, but I have sailed a few small sloops and even have a small sail I could in fact install on top of the car. As long as the tail or side wind was distinctly faster than my ground speed, (eg, 20-knot tailwind vs 15 mph ground speed), there ought to be a net gain in efficiency for that setup. I would just have to be very careful that the total height of car + mast would be less than the minimum height of the underpasses.
    Really classy would be to have a small spinnaker in a tube mounted fore and aft on top, and then pop that chute when on a downwind leg at a dead slow ground speed. It would look spectacular, but I would have to check with the DMV to see if that is legal on public roads. Advantage of the spinnaker-in-a-tube setup is that you can easily douse it and pull it back into the tube when on crosswind or upwind legs. Hmmm.
     
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  12. Starship_Enterprius

    Starship_Enterprius Active Member

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    I dream of a cross country eco corridor reserved for green minded vehicles travelling at a slower pace where fossil fuels are totally banned. The road would be divided it into several lanes with the rightmost lane starting for the slowest human/solar/wind powered vehicles.

    Using Route 66 for that would be perfect not only for historic and nostalgic but also economic reasons. Slower vehicles will require more hotels, restaurants, and repair shops along the way and would probably revive that highway.
     
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  13. Robert Holt

    Robert Holt Senior Member

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    The automotive equivalent of the Appalachian Trail!
    Ok, but which routes now available are "Prius friendly?
    I found a nice relatively deserted, 4-lane section of road on the Northwest coast of Florida between Tampa and Tallahassee that was level enough and had very few stoplights or stop signs for 30-35 miles IIRC, and had no sped minimum. So one possibility would be to drive up and back on that stretch all through the night at a steady 30 mph. Not convenient to Northern Virginia, though.
     
  14. Starship_Enterprius

    Starship_Enterprius Active Member

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    Sorry, can't think of any good roads at all. I heard there's an abandoned airfield 3 hours from my location which would be perfect, but I can't find it via google. It's a closely guarded secret by astronomists as it has the best night sky view in our locality.

    Going back to your list... since your taking the time to remove your spare tire already, why not also remove the rear seats and the front passenger seat. Would probably save you another 60 to 80 lbs.
     
  15. Robert Holt

    Robert Holt Senior Member

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    Well, removing the back seat and passenger seat would necessarily involve somehow removing the DW, who may, I suspect, object. She IS German; she DID survive the US Air Force's bombing of Hambug in WWII, but I am reluctant to push my intercultural luck, so to speak.
    As it happens, I live near Dulles airport, and decades ago it was so underutilized and I knew the airport manager well enough that I might have been able to circulate very slowly around the taxiways from midnight to 5a.m., but those days are long gone.
    So back to Plan A: I have noticed that state highways often parallel Interstates, and I will hope that all the fast, impatient traffic on my route will take the Interstate whilst I trundle along on the highway. Today I filled up with Wawa non-ethanol gas in Fredericksburg, Virginia, and then practiced trundling by heading back northwest on Route 17, then northeast on Route 28, and home on Route 50. I estimate that I MUST have a displayed mpg of at least 73 mpg to make an 800-mile tank, and I was just barely able to achieve that by holding the highway speeds to 45mph. So this goal may be possible, but keeping up driving like that for 800 miles will be difficult.
    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Starship_Enterprius

    Starship_Enterprius Active Member

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    lol, I didn't know your wife was with you. All the more impressive how you get such good mileage.
     
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  17. Starship_Enterprius

    Starship_Enterprius Active Member

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    As part of the emissions recall, I read Toyota will replace the evaporative emissions canister with an improved design. Does this mean our cars will be getting new active charcoal elements for free?

    If so I'm thinking hey why not as soon as we get a notice for replacement, we overfill our tanks to the brim (even shake it side to side lol) and shoot for 900 miles knowing the whole things going to be replaced anyway....Ha-hah!!!!

    Who want's to shoot for 1100 miles bragging? LOL :LOL: :ROFLMAO: :p :whistle:
     
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  18. Robert Holt

    Robert Holt Senior Member

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    The Plan:
    1. Fill with summer blend non-ethanol E0 gasoline-done
    2. Calibrate Scangauge for E0 - done
    3. Inflate tires 40-42 psi
    4. Slowly drive South and East from Minnesota , taking advantage of flat Midwestern terrain and prevailing northwesterly winds.
    .(DW says "watching corn grow as we drive by!")
    5. Using Scangauge "tank to empty" estimate, try for 800-mile tank.
    (DW says "How many days will it take to drive home?")
    6. Carry spare can of fuel, just in case!
    (DW says "I'm not walking to get gas in the middle of nowhere!")
    7. Use money saved on gasoline for divorce lawyer.
     
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  19. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Obtuse Angler

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    Use a block heater?

    Also, I think I read somewhere: if you run dry, you need to add at least 3 gallons, or the car won't start??

    (Said the man who "tanked up" yesterday, fuel gauge right at half. Took 18 liters, lol.)
     
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  20. walter Lee

    walter Lee Hypermiling Padawan

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    Over 50 mph, at a driving temperature of over 70 degrees Fahrenheit, with no rain/wet roads, with LRR tires overinflated, and a smooth road => aerodynamic drag load starts to require more energy than road rolling resistance. I agree with everything that Bob Wilson has posted in this thread. My two cents are as follows...

    ** Lower speeds are required most of the time to achieve +65 mpg on a Prius.

    ** Doing a full stop or braking to slow down or allowing the regenerative brakes to run when you don't have to will cause the Prius fuel efficiency to drop you have to check the HSI display and make sure you don't let the regenerative brakes automatically slow the car down while avoid using too much power for the electric motors - in Maryland you can do this by planning your route so there are no stop sign AND to schedule your driving to be at night when the traffic lights are turned off -- this will help you avoid stopping on your high MPG route. Fuel efficiency is improved when you avoid using the brakes or regenerative brakes. In hypermiling circles this is called "Driving without Brakes"

    ** If you have a 400 watt Toyota Engine block heater - using it to pre heat the coolant about 45 minutes before you start the car will hep you gain about 7 mpg. by mitigating the cold start warm up cost.

    ** the Scangauge gas tank gauge only accurately reads from 11.4 gallons to 0.7 gallons, When the onboard computer gives a beep and starts flashing the last bar on the gas tank gauge you have 1.7 gallons left and the onboard computer reads you have 32 miles to go until empty. I've driven my 2010 Prius about 60 miles after the Scanguage II gas tank Xgauge *Flv* got to 0.7 gallons. The FLv reading will change when going uphill (higher readings ) and going downhill (lower readings) from when readings are done with the Prius on a level road. After 0.7 gallons reading - the Prius gas tank contents must be estimated.

    ** my test indicates that the weight of the spare tire and tire jack do not significantly impact the fuel efficiency of the 2010 Toyota Prius

    ** The Yokohama Avid and Michelin Energy Saver Tires can be super inflated to 53-50 psi but to significant MPG increases from this incremental lower rolling resistance - the Prius needs to be going under 30 mph on a smooth dry road. I haven't seen much performance difference at the 40-44 psi between either tires. 40-44 psi is a much more comfortable and recommended for longer trips .On a rainy-wet-icy-snowy driving environment - LRR tires don't help much and over inflated tires can pose a safety risk..

    ** . The best way to use terrain to get higher fuel efficiency is to use gravity assisted acceleration - accelerate on the downhills, glide mainly on the level, and keep the engine at .80 load or less than 1.0 gph while going uphill.In hypermiling circles its called "Driving with Load"

    ** when driving on the super highway in a constant speed traffic - any car can better MPG by driving closely behind another vehicle so that the vehicle in front takes care of most of the aerodynamic drag - this is called *drafting* (Top Gear drafted a BMW behind a Prius to improve the BMWs MPG on one show) ; however , this technique is not recommended by many because it is considered a safety risk. On certain MPG test/marathons when several cars are used - lead vehicles have radio links with the vehicles following from behind to increase safety or they might use a closed road/test circuit or both. .

    Disclosure: I drive a 2010 Toyota Prius III in the MD/NoVA/DC Metro Area. I switched from yokohama Avid s33d 15 inch tires to Michelin energy savers all seasons 15 inchw tires recently. The front tires are normally set to 44 psi and the rear tires are normally set to 40 psi. I have a Scangauge II installed (xgauge setting are Soc/Flv, GPH, LoD, AVG) . Some day I'll install an EBH... I grill block in the winter. I use 10% ethanol 87 octane regular gasoline.

    My odometer is + 75K miles with an overall mpg of about 58 to 59 mpg. I have already done a 800 mile/tank. I am a skilled hypermiler. My mileage log is on fuelly.com under hyperdrive one.... my overall MPG for my 2010 Prius has dropped slightly from 60 mpg to 59 mpg ... bad weather, me just not hypermiling as much, and more superhighway driving are the usual suspects.

    hope this helps
    Walter Lee
     
    #180 walter Lee, Aug 20, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2016
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