A 5-seat Toyota Prius Prime is on the way

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by Tideland Prius, Jul 12, 2016.

  1. I'mJp

    I'mJp Senior Member

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    I wouldn't mind having a two seater and 200 miles range.
     
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  2. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    Have to hope one of the Honda Insight EV projects works then you could
     
  3. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    My backseat has rarely been used in the 2 years I've had it - but in almost every case, it's had 3 grandchildren there. I'd have had to do 2 trips otherwise.
     
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  4. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Grandchildren that can sit next to each other closely without issue, nice.
     
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  5. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    I recently googled the dealers around here - none list a new PRIUS in stock. And - if I go on CarSales, Gen 4, there are 7 used and 2 dealer demonstrators listed for sale in the whole country.

    It's funny - they tend to be on their best behaviour when we're there - I suspect they might have times when they're not. They're good kids. Funny thing, miss 11yr old asked 2 wks ago "Grandad, can you change the radio station to xyz" - xyz is the sort of head-banging music my classically trained ear (and tinnitus) doesn't appreciate. I left the Pipe Organ music playing.
     
    #245 alanclarkeau, Jul 18, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 19, 2018
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  6. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    The problem is weight. Now that the Prius is on TNGA, it might be possible but the combined weight of the battery and the larger body can't exceed the chassis' designed gross weight. (at least that's my non-engineering mind thinks is one of the issue).
     
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  7. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    Could be - there are 4 types of TNGA - and PRIUS & PRIME are on the lightest version:

    upload_2018-7-19_15-37-40.png

    Ranging from Corolla/Prius etc ... Camry/Avalon etc ... Crown etc ... to LEXUS LS etc.
     
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  8. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    I believe the Camry/Avalon/ES are on the GA-L. I think the the LS is on GA-K. So that leaves the C and N versions. My guess is C since the Prius was the first to arrive with TNGA
     
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  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    People complained about the gen1 Volt having just four seats. I didn't have an issue because of the car's size, but GM got a "just in case" fifth seat into the gen 2 to appease the critics and consumers.

    My issue with the four seats in the Prime is that its evidence Toyota wasn't paying attention. The Volt came out in 2010. Toyota can't claim to not know that dissatisfaction with having just four seats in a car of the Prime's class would exist. The Volt didn't have a fourth seat because the battery was packaged for better weight distribution and limiting cargo space lost. The four seats in the Prime are for an option that isn't available in all markets.
     
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  10. Since2002

    Since2002 Senior Lurker

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    Prius v has already been discontinued, 2017 was the last model year. But you raise an interesting thought experiment anyway, what if instead of the Prime they had done Prime v. However they wouldn't be able to simply reuse the old v platform because that was basically Gen 3 architecture dating back to 2011 and already way overdue for an overhaul to align it with their current TNGA architecture. But yes as part of that overhaul they could have incorporated PHEV and wound up with a Prime with more cargo space (and seats) than the current Prime. However at quite a cost I believe, and not only in mpg.

    What they did instead was take basically the existing Gen 4 TNGA platform and squeeze in a larger battery, although in perhaps a not so elegant way. And a few cosmetic design changes and a few feature changes. By doing so they were able to keep the cost of the Prime way down. The tradeoff is a slightly smaller amount of cargo space compared to Gen 4 and loss of the 5th seat. Prime v would have gone in the other direction, same seating as Gen 4 but more cargo space. And maybe a tiny bit wider like the v was compared to Gen 3. But all of that at a likely much higher cost, not only due to the larger size but also by having to develop a completely different platform for Prime than Gen 4. In theory they could have just extended the Gen 4 roofline, that would increase overall cargo space but it would do nothing for the cargo floor height or fifth seat, both of which are controlled by the shape of the existing platform.

    Would they have sold more Prime v than the Prime that they came up with? Maybe, that's hard to say. But apparently Toyota didn't think so.
     
  11. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    I would rather have two seater Prime with larger cargo space.
     
  12. goinskiing

    goinskiing Active Member

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    Except all you have to do is fold down the back seats. Though I know what you mean, but still...
     
  13. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Yeah, yeah, my Prime's both back seats has been folded down for most of my ownership period, but space where folded seats are occupying now is totally underutilized. LOL
     
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  14. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    The v is not discontinued, it continues on in other markets in various forms.

    Compared to a Gen IV,
    The current Prime is completely different under the hood, longer, different stance and as anyone who has had to replace parts on the Prime can attest, few common Gen IV parts, let alone body panels.

    What Toyota believed was that US PHEV sales volume would be too low to justify a US only version so they standardized the US Prime to the already designed International Prime.
     
  15. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    Yes, the v is still here - in 7 seat form. In fact, one of the journals just did a road test on one. But there was hints by someone on PriusChat that it's not going to have a Gen 2 v - instead the RAV4h will take on that role - not sure how accurate that was.
     
  16. Since2002

    Since2002 Senior Lurker

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    I'm not sure that counters my argument that Toyota kept costs down by not creating a completely different platform for the Prime. How much it saved however compared to the other things you mentioned I don't know.
    I wonder for how much longer? They sold a lot more in Japan than U.S. so I can understand why it was discontinued here first, but unless sales are holding steady in Japan, it's getting older and it's hard to predict how long it will continue there, at least in its current form.
    I would think sales in other countries are equally impacted by losing the fifth seat but I don't know. I suspect that in spite of market differences the fundamental points that I made about whether the Prime should have shared it's platform with the Gen 4 platform as a way to keep costs down applies to all markets where the Prime is sold.
     
  17. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    If it was on the PriusChat, then it's US-centric which means it already occurred. The RAV4h has already overtaken the Prius v in sales which is probably why TMNA killed it off; it was much more profitable to sell a RAV4 Hybrid. How much more profitable? Well take a look at the upcoming 2019 RAV4 Hybrid lineup - it features a full range of models (similar to the current lineup) with the SE Hybrid marketed as the sportiest/fastest/most efficient one.

    The RAV4 Hybrid has always been quicker than the regular 4-cylinder RAV4 (no brainer there - instant torque plus CVT for quick revs) but the hidden benefit is also quicker passing power (again, CVT.. no need to downshift). But Toyota worked on the handling part, taking advantage of the better weight distribution of a hybrid model. The regular RAV4 still wins if you need a better AWD system (torque vectoring and electronic locking diff as well as the ability to send more power to the rear wheels) but for most people, the improved AWD-i will work just fine.
     
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  18. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    I hear the RAV4h is coming here early next year - but I can't see that it's going to be a 7 seater - only 5 from what I see. So whether it will replace the v - though the v isn't selling huge numbers compare with RAV which is quite popular here.

    Most of Australia won't be needing the AWD version - but possibly that's the only one which will be offered.
     
  19. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Ohh? That's great.

    Yes it's a 5 seater. The RAV4 7-seater was dropped with the current generation and there's no plans to add a 3rd row to the next generation.
     
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  20. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Their initial sales prediction was an even split for the US and Japan. Yet, the Prime's design is still mostly for the Japanese market. The battery and pure EV mode are a concession for the US market. The initial Prime design likely had a battery size and packaging similar to the PiP's, but TMNA cried that would never sell here, and a larger pack was quickly stuffed in.

    There were spy shots of the next Pruis v posted here, but there is a chance those were actually the next Rav4.

    Yes, using the same platform is the best move. Toyota just didn't have the foresight to design the platform with a larger battery in mind, like Hyundai did with the Ioniq.

    The hybrid is also the most powerful one.

    The Lexus NX was originally available in FWD. Such could be available in the Rav4h for other markets. It would lose the tow rating with FWD though.
     
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