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A Challenge to PC's "Neocon" Bush Supporters

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by Jack Kelly, Jul 17, 2006.

  1. Jack Kelly

    Jack Kelly New Member

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    There are a few conservatives here, and what sounds like many more "neocons". You know who you are (I hope).

    Triumph of the Authoritarians
    By John W. Dean
    The Boston Globe

    Friday 14 July 2006

    Contemporary conservatism and its influence on the Republican Party was, until recently, a mystery to me. The practitioners' bludgeoning style of politics, their self-serving manipulation of the political processes, and their policies that focus narrowly on perceived self-interest - none of this struck me as based on anything related to traditional conservatism. Rather, truth be told, today's so-called conservatives are quite radical.

    For more than 40 years I have considered myself a "Goldwater conservative," and am thoroughly familiar with the movement's canon. But I can find nothing conservative about the Bush/Cheney White House, which has created a Nixon "imperial presidency" on steroids, while acting as if being tutored by the best and brightest of the Cosa Nostra.

    What true conservative calls for packing the courts to politicize the federal judiciary to the degree that it is now possible to determine the outcome of cases by looking at the prior politics of judges? Where is the conservative precedent for the monocratic leadership style that conservative Republicans imposed on the US House when they took control in 1994, a style that seeks primarily to perfect fund-raising skills while outsourcing the writing of legislation to special interests and freezing Democrats out of the legislative process?

    How can those who claim themselves conservatives seek to destroy the deliberative nature of the US Senate by eliminating its extended-debate tradition, which has been the institution's distinctive contribution to our democracy? Yet that is precisely what Republican Senate leaders want to do by eliminating the filibuster when dealing with executive business (namely judicial appointments).

    Today's Republican policies are antithetical to bedrock conservative fundamentals. There is nothing conservative about preemptive wars or disregarding international law by condoning torture. Abandoning fiscal responsibility is now standard operating procedure. Bible-thumping, finger-pointing, tongue-lashing attacks on homosexuals are not found in Russell Krik's classic conservative canons, nor in James Burham's guides to conservative governing. Conservatives in the tradition of former senator Barry Goldwater and President Ronald Reagan believed in "conserving" this planet, not relaxing environmental laws to make life easier for big business. And neither man would have considered employing Christian evangelical criteria in federal programs, ranging from restricting stem cell research to fighting AIDs through abstinence.

    Candid and knowledgeable Republicans on the far right concede - usually only when not speaking for attribution - that they are not truly conservative. They do not like to talk about why they behave as they do, or even to reflect on it. Nonetheless, their leaders admit they like being in charge, and their followers grant they find comfort in strong leaders who make them feel safe. This is what I gleaned from discussions with countless conservative leaders and followers, over a decade of questioning.

    I started my inquiry in the mid-1990s, after a series of conversations with Goldwater, whom I had known for more than 40 years. Goldwater was also mystified (when not miffed) by the direction of today's professed conservatives - their growing incivility, pugnacious attitudes, and arrogant and antagonistic style, along with a narrow outlook intolerant of those who challenge their thinking. He worried that the Republican Party had sold its soul to Christian fundamentalists, whose divisive social values would polarize the nation. From those conversations, Goldwater and I planned to study why these people behave as they do, and to author a book laying out what we found. Sadly, the senator's declining health soon precluded his continuing on the project, so I put it on the shelf. But I kept digging until I found some answers, and here are my thoughts.

    For almost half a century, social scientists have been exploring authoritarianism. We do not typically associate authoritarianism with our democracy, but as I discovered while examining decades of empirical research, we ignore some findings at our risk. Unfortunately, the social scientists who have studied these issues report their findings in monographs and professional journals written for their peers, not for general readers. With the help of a leading researcher and others, I waded into this massive body of work.

    What I found provided a personal epiphany. Authoritarian conservatives are, as a researcher told me, "enemies of freedom, antidemocratic, antiequality, highly prejudiced, mean-spirited, power hungry, Machiavellian and amoral." And that's not just his view. To the contrary, this is how these people have consistently described themselves when being anonymously tested, by the tens of thousands over the past several decades.

    Authoritarianism's impact on contemporary conservatism is beyond question. Because this impact is still growing and has troubling (if not actually evil) implications, I hope that social scientists will begin to write about this issue for general readers. It is long past time to bring the telling results of their empirical work into the public square and to the attention of American voters. No less than the health of our democracy may depend on this being done. We need to stop thinking we are dealing with traditional conservatives on the modern stage, and instead recognize that they've often been supplanted by authoritarians.



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    John W. Dean, former Nixon White House counsel, just published his seventh nonfiction book, Conservatives Without Conscience.
    -------

    Jump to today's Truthout Features:
     
  2. eyeguy13

    eyeguy13 Member

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    I saw his interview with John Stewart last week. Good interview. John Dean would actually consider himself 'left of center' in today's political climate. Wow. Left of center. Here is a Goldwater conservative saying that things are screwed up now.

    The neo-cons MUST go. Our country deserves better. Either the Democrats or the old timey Republicans. I don't care as long as the current neo-cons leave.
     
  3. MarinJohn

    MarinJohn Senior Member

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    THere won't be many conservative replys to this post because even the staunchest reasonable conservative has finally begun to realize we are under an inept facist dictatorship movement, which even they find revolting. The NEOCONS on the otherhand...will follow these country busting madmen to their graves since they can't think for themselves and must regurgitate CON talking points ad infinitium. It's becoming hilarious to hear them. Remember those bushisms "I'm a uniter not a divider" and "I will never support nationbuilding". As we've come to expect over these long years what ever they say is a ruse and just believe the opposite.
     
  4. eyeguy13

    eyeguy13 Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarinJohn @ Jul 18 2006, 03:55 PM) [snapback]288335[/snapback]</div>
    You beat me to the post. I was going to wait a few more days to see if there were any reply's. None so far. I'm just waiting for that stem cell research veto from the White House. My only hope is that the neocons are so far gone that they can't see their demise coming. I hate to say it but kind of like the Fascists in Germany. Like John Dean said---Authoritarianism.
     
  5. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

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    Triumph of the Authoritarians

    From the Boston Globe.

    It's nice to have a link. It's also better to only copy/paste a paragraph. Copying the entire article is copyright violation.
     
  6. Mystery Squid

    Mystery Squid Junior Member

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    No thoughts needed...

    Rather, only certain gestures involving the middle finger as to the ridiculousness of the content within first post...

    ...hence the lack of responses...

    :D
     
  7. fshagan

    fshagan Senior Member

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    John Dean isn't a conservative ... and I doubt that he ever was. Nixon surrounded himself with men of questionable moral character, and John Dean was one of the most questionable.

    The hatred of Bush is simply tiring, and I think it will actually have a backlash effect. Reagan benefitted from the backlash during the debates when he came across as a pretty reasonable guy ... and all the Reagan haters had to back track and say "Sure he's nice on stage, but in private he wants to starve your children".

    The Dems are in the process of being taken over by the Looney Left who think they can relive their glory days after the withdrawal from the Vietnam theater. The haze of pot smoke clouded their vision then, and they really didn't care that several million died in the wake of our withdrawal (they were Southeast Asians, after all, and not REAL people). Now, they won't care if 10 million Arab and Persian men and women die, as long as they can pin it on someone else.

    I thought the Dems were a shoo-in for the next Presidential election, but I'm beginning to think they will, once again, hand the election to the Republicans. Are you guys sure Howard Dean, the liberal bloggers, and guys like John Dean are not on the RNC payroll?
     
  8. MarinJohn

    MarinJohn Senior Member

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    With the help of a leading researcher and others, I waded into this massive body of work.

    What I found provided a personal epiphany. Authoritarian conservatives are, as a researcher told me, ``enemies of freedom, antidemocratic, antiequality, highly prejudiced, mean-spirited, power hungry, Machiavellian and amoral." And that's not just his view. To the contrary, this is how these people have consistently described themselves when being anonymously tested, by the tens of thousands over the past several decades.

    John Dean, once considered the worst of the Nixon Administration
     
  9. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarinJohn @ Jul 19 2006, 04:56 PM) [snapback]288928[/snapback]</div>
    there is no doubt that the Democrats will snatch defeat from the jaws of victory again in '08. Their candidates must jump through enough hoops that they select a person TWICE that could not even beat a former alcoholic who cant string two sentances together in public. Imagine when the loopy lefty Dem approved candidate for '08 runs against a guy who can actually talk and make sense, who possibly was even a REAL war hero, or a guy who is a pro choice Repub? Forgetaboutit. Keep making that huge voting block of a state New Hampshire your guiding post -

    More evidence is Lieberman's trial within the party - that is all you need to witness. Gone are my Democratic types that I once held in high esteem - Scoop Jackson, Hubert Humphrey, even Tip O'Neil. Heck even JFK would not be allowed in and neither would Truman or FDR - imagine a Dem authorizing the use of nukes today :lol:

    Instead of running at the lips with liberal talking points or paragraph headers let me see what the Democrats are offering as a plan for the US and our current geopolitcal environment.

    If the Dems dont do well this election year, '08 is history. if the war on terror picks up more + traction - '08 is history. if the economy continues to hum - '08 is history. and if the dems lose in '08 the SCOTUS is totally and for the next 30-40 years conservative :D
     
  10. eyeguy13

    eyeguy13 Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Jul 19 2006, 04:17 PM) [snapback]288935[/snapback]</div>
    I don't agree with you, well, never, but your statement above is true.

    God (and I'm an atheist) help our country if you are right.
     
  11. rufaro

    rufaro WeePoo, Gen II

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Jul 18 2006, 04:24 PM) [snapback]288405[/snapback]</div>
    Or...maybe so many think it so true as to require no answer? Especially ones so obviously not thought out in the slightest, just, well, KNEE JERK?