1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

A majority of auto executives still think battery electric cars will fail, survey says

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-2022)' started by HPrimeAdvanced, Jan 8, 2018.

  1. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,571
    48,862
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    ny/nj $4,000. toyota rebate, another 2-3k dealer discount tax rebates, and your cheaper than a lift back.
     
  2. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2011
    6,972
    3,209
    1
    Location:
    NJ
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    Model:
    N/A
    The Toyotathon ended, now it's the Drive To Victory Event.
     
  3. Oniki

    Oniki Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2017
    652
    499
    0
    Location:
    Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Let's see: Auto execs expect EVs to fail, but they are pouring money into EV development.

    Huh
     
    bisco likes this.
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,571
    48,862
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    53% expect failure, 47% are planning to pour money in, but waiting to see what the 53% are going to do.:p
     
  5. padroo

    padroo Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2008
    2,763
    2,250
    13
    Location:
    Chesterton, Indiana Another third world country.
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    Is it my imagination but is Chrysler behind on hybrid and EV development. I see they finally have a mini van out.
     
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,571
    48,862
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    and a 500e. they are definitely behind, but i'm sure there must be a corporate statement somewhere about how many ev's they will have by 2040.:cool:
     
    Oniki likes this.
  7. Munpot42

    Munpot42 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    1,391
    543
    0
    Location:
    Santa Monica, Ca. 90405
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    I believe CAFE is still a factor, so perhaps the sale of every Bolt allows another two or three Suburbans to be sold and still not have a CAFE problem. That is a very good reason to continue the R&D on electric and fuel cell vehicles. Feel free to correct me if I a wrong.
     
    Trollbait likes this.
  8. Oniki

    Oniki Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2017
    652
    499
    0
    Location:
    Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    ZEV credits matter a lot more
     
  9. padroo

    padroo Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2008
    2,763
    2,250
    13
    Location:
    Chesterton, Indiana Another third world country.
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    I had forgotten how bad air pollution from cars was until I went to the Woodward Avenue Dream Cruise in Michigan. 40,000 cars in Eight lanes of stop and go traffic with all those old cars bellowing out their pollution.
    It was great:)
     
  10. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2008
    6,154
    4,146
    1
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    Model:
    N/A
    As Oniki mentioned, ZEV credits are a bigger factor. But yes, EVs and FCEVs help with CAFE as well. EVs moreso than FCEVs.
    This is one of the reasons you see most EVs being available first, or only, in CA and other ZEV states.

    After switching to EVs, we started noting the toxic fumes a lot. It is one of the reasons I avoid ‘convenience’ stores that sell gas, and rarely have windows open downtown or on other busy roads.
    Studies have come out on the hazards of living close to busy thoroughfares. Of course, while FCEVs and EVs eliminate the toxic fumes and black ice issues of exhaust, they still have the particulates from tire wear.
     
  11. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    21,595
    11,216
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    How far do you drive every day? The 90D has an EPA range of 294 miles. Supercommutes are a thing, but those with them are a small part of the population. The majority of the population will use less than half of that range everyday. So a single 50 amp level 2 charger will be plenty for their needs.

    A BEV isn't that much simpler than a FCEV. They both use the same electric drive train, and both have a battery. The BEV has a much larger battery with charger, and FCEV gets a fuel cell plus fuel system for it. The fuel cell is close to the battery in relationship, but are more expensive at the moment. The fuel system can be easy and cheap, but that is not the case with hydrogen.

    All car companies need an EV for the ZEV mandate, and they also balance out more profitable ICE models for CAFE. Not only does a plug in use those high MPGe figures for CAFE, but each one sold counts as more than one car for it(around 1.2 to 1.7 each).

    Being forced to offer an EV, or selling one to help the overall balance sheet, doesn't mean they are pouring money into the cars.
     
  12. Oniki

    Oniki Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2017
    652
    499
    0
    Location:
    Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Your words, not mine.

    I was thinking of the $70B VW has stated their intent to invest in EV; and Ford's $11B (close to half their "R&D" budget.)
    Even GM has stated grandiose plans for car electrification, fwiw.
     
  13. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    21,595
    11,216
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    And Fiat's CEO begged people not to buy the 500e because they lost money on each one.
    Then when car execs speak electrification, they also include hybrids without a plug.
     
  14. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2016
    11,696
    11,317
    0
    Location:
    Central Virginia
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    FCV is electric too, just with a different power source.
     
  15. Oniki

    Oniki Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2017
    652
    499
    0
    Location:
    Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    If you are alluding to the GM announcement, it was uncharacteristically careful in separating out 'full EV' from the generic electrification you are writing about.

    I was not including Fiat. Or Toyota for that matter, even though they do seem to have smelled the roses lately. Honda has.
     
    #195 Oniki, Jan 16, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018
  16. padroo

    padroo Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2008
    2,763
    2,250
    13
    Location:
    Chesterton, Indiana Another third world country.
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    HPrimeAdvanced and Oniki like this.
  17. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    2,306
    1,328
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    This is where enthusiasts like us spreading the word, influential folks like Elon Musk, strong Government pushes in China, EU (e.g., Norway), etc., and especially momentum built up so far, makes all the difference.


    iPhone ? Pro
     
    Zythryn and HPrimeAdvanced like this.
  18. Old Bear

    Old Bear Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2017
    712
    1,048
    20
    Location:
    Boston, Massachusetts USA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    No doubt true, but much of hybrid technology -- including motors, generators, batteries, transmissions, and controls -- provides a test bed for many of the components necessary to make plug-ins and full EVs feasible. This is true for concepts, designs, engineering, and production.

    As I posted elsewhere in PriusChat: Making a major transition in any industry's core technology is never easy and never inexpensive. However, sometimes it becomes clear that major strategic changes are unavoidable. Consider the "phone companies" who have mostly abandoned their huge legacy investment in copper wire plant and equipment to adopt digital products running over fiber optic cable. It wasn't cheap and it wasn't easy, but it was necessary.

    Sure, some of what automobile companies announce is just public relations fluff, but Reuters reported this week from the Detroit auto show:
    • Ford Motor Company plans to invest $11-billion in electric vehicles and have 40 hybrid and fully electric vehicles in production by 2022 – 16 will be fully electric and the other 24 plug-in hybrids.
    • GM said it will be adding 20 new battery electric and fuel cell vehicles to its global lineup by 2023, financed by robust profits from traditional internal combustion engine vehicles in the United States and China.
    • Volkswagen said it plans to spend $40 billion on electric cars, autonomous driving and new mobility services by the end of 2022.
    • GM, Toyota and Volkswagen also plan to aggressively expand their electric vehicle offerings, including vehicles which target consumers who want luxury, performance in an electric SUV.
    Much of this is being driven by changes in consumer desires and by government regulation outside of the United States. It is no longer possible to produce vehicles solely for the US market -- but it is still necessary to produce vehicles which fit US lifestyles and infrastructure. Hence, we're going to continue seeing the industry move toward global technologies. It has no choice.
     
    HPrimeAdvanced, Oniki and padroo like this.
  19. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    2,306
    1,328
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    I neither entirely agree nor nor disagree. Basically what you’re saying is true, but I think there’s also a lot of truth in this too:



    iPhone ? Pro
     
    bisco, HPrimeAdvanced and Oniki like this.
  20. Snow

    Snow Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2014
    91
    63
    0
    Location:
    Pewaukee, WI
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Who's the one that's a second grader?
     
    bisco likes this.