ABS and red brake warning lights. Brake operation NOT normal

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by bdb3011, Oct 30, 2022.

  1. bdb3011

    bdb3011 Junior Member

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    2008 Prius with 225K on her. Red brake warning light and ABS warning light are on all the time, but no codes.
    When driving and attempting to brake, the pedal is initially quite a bit harder than normal and feels like it's not going to decelerate the car. Then as you push a bit harder all of the sudden it feels like you've got 75% brake pressure applied... like you slammed on the brakes.... if that makes sense It is very had to modulate the brakes. Kind of a all or nothing type thing.

    Anyone out there had this issue? Ideas to fix it?

    Thank you!

    Brandon
     
  2. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Have you had a chance yet to read other threads here where people have said the same thing, and learn how you can still retrieve the trouble codes even if some tool you have used told you there aren't any?
     
  3. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    Generally the ABS pump accumulator is fubar. Need to do above tests .
     
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  4. bdb3011

    bdb3011 Junior Member

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    I didn't find one that was similar. Just a bunch of people trying to reset the warning lights but not really having issues with the brakes, or people with a dead pedal, the same as mine. And it was a shop code reader that came up with no codes.
     
  5. bdb3011

    bdb3011 Junior Member

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    What "above test" are you talking about?
     
  6. bdb3011

    bdb3011 Junior Member

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    Also, are people using brake actuator and brake accumulator interchangeably? I just ran across a couple threads that seem to be taking about the same thing, but use one or the other term??
     
  7. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I see. It turns out there are lots and lots of threads here that start out the same way, ABS and brake warning lights and some code reader said no codes.

    If I were Danny or Tideland, I would probably add logic to the "post new thread" button to scan for those words and just link to the existing advice for that situation and not immediately create the new thread.

    Many people, including shops, will have code readers that won't show all the codes in this car. To find out what your issue is, you can either obtain a reader that will (we have a review thread for that), or just use the Tc to CG jumper wire, count light blinks method, which doesn't require any reader at all. A quick search will find you lots of posts here on how to do that; here's one.
     
  8. bdb3011

    bdb3011 Junior Member

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    Correct, there are a ton of threads that start with those key words and I read through many of them. I found none that had the same issue i'm having. I thought it logical to ask the group if someone may have had the same experience as I have had. I figured, like most forums around, some prius savvy individual may have had the problem or know something about it and could just give some quick advise. That person has yet to present themself. My hope was that it was worth a quick try before I spend time i don't have wading through threads, or give the OBD2 jump a go. My mistake. I'm sorry if i've triggered some sort of "How dare he ask a question that's been asked before!" PTSD.

    I'll just take that sarcastic dig on the chin and see how it goes.

    Thanks you for the link.
     
  9. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    Okay so when you got the brake pedal not as hard and then it gets 75% is hard and you get 3/4 of your breaking and your head's throwing into the windshield do you hear the brake pumping all the time? When you turn the car off does the brake pump run seemingly a long time like it didn't before? If so usually this is happening because the accumulator which is the canister mounted next to the pump on this bracket of the device we're talking about whatever we want to call it the accumulator is not able to hold the pressure whether there's a valve that won't close or there's a leak in the accumulator but internally something's not holding pressure and so the pump is running a lot to try and make up for that. The easiest thing to do at this point is to do what Chapman's talking about because you can do it right there sitting there standing there whatever and you'll know right now the code reader at the shop we don't know anything about that except a lot of them don't work for these type of cars that being said you can count the blink codes right now just the fact that you have codes blinking means there's something stored in the computer that's probably relating to your lights and you'll at least want to get a couple of them and then from there help will be in abundance believe me. This exact scenario may not have been typed and text in this brake light threads . Everybody describes the problem a little bit different but the pump constantly running the brake pedal not being consistent are all pointing towards pressure problems in the brake system The pressure comes from the pump and is stored in the accumulator and used when the pedals pressed so all of these things are kind of intertwined unfortunately.
     
  10. bdb3011

    bdb3011 Junior Member

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    Thank you for that, it helps! Good point about people's different descriptions and takes on how a problem presents. I'm not sure if the pump is running more than usual, but now i can pay more attention to that. Appreciate the info very much.... and i'll run the test to find out if there's a code being thrown.
     
  11. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    It's not that the test will help you find out if you have a code—you have the warning lights, so you do—but it will help you find out what code(s) you have.
     
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  12. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    Once you notice the rrr rrrr rrr of that pump especially when you shut the car off you'll be walking away from the car heading to the front door if there's any distance to your front door when you get to the front door you still hear the pump running It is very noticeable If you go to a Gen 2 that's in perfect condition when the person exits that car that pump will stop running almost as fast as the door closes of the car that is it's that fast when it's working properly If you've made it to your front door and it still running away it will not be long until lights will start coming on or something will happen an event will take place that will put on all of the ABS lights least that's what I've seen two or three times that it's happened I've tried to watch it carefully and see but it's all internal so there's no seeing anything it's mostly hearing and feeling.
     
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  13. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I missed this question earlier, sorry. The brake system has both an actuator and an accumulator, but in Gen 2 they are built into the same single assembly so just one thing to buy and replace. So in the Gen 2 world people are pretty relaxed about what to call it.

    In the other Prius generations, where they are split out into different assemblies, it's more important to be specific, so you know which thing to buy.
     
  14. mr_guy_mann

    mr_guy_mann Senior Member

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    Your viewpoint and reaction are understandable. You don't learn much without asking questions, and no one is born knowing everything.

    That said, it's just a wee bit trying to explain the "same" information 50 or 80 times (maybe there should be a new sticky thread?)

    BUT, kudos to you, you did NOT dig up some thread that was 10 years old and ask "what did you do to fix it? I have the exact same problem" (even though most of the codes are different, and maybe the symptoms as well - it's still the SAME!)

    Anyway, I have an intense dislike for many (budget) scantools- anything that specifically reports "no codes found". They can typically scan engine, possibly ABS, transmission, & airbag- on a "normal" car. They do not say what systems they were able to communicate with, and what they couldn't. That's pretty much worse than useless on a Prius.

    A Gen2 Prius (2004-2009) has 15-16 different systems (ecu's). I only have confidence in a tool that reports, "scanned ECM- no codes, scanned ABS- yes codes, scanned SRS- no codes" and so on through ALL the systems.

    On your car, 99% of the time, if there are warning lights ON, there are codes in some ecu somewhere.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  15. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    What I was going to post has already been covered, so I won't repeat it.
     
    #15 dolj, Nov 1, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2022
  16. Renaydar

    Renaydar New Member

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    I have the brake and abs lights on and can hear something after the car is off (didn't realize it was the brake pump). The day those lights came on, there was also a bad smell around the rear of the car. Anyone know a reason for that? It's the holidays and I can't get the car to a mechanic any time soon. I'm not driving it. Today I was going to do a 10 minute drive, but when I put it in reverse with my foot on the brake it went and I had to push hard to make it stop. I didn't drive it for fear the brakes wouldn't work.
     
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  17. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    Now with a collection of scan tools including tech I'll just scan with a few of the good ones before having to get the tack out the laptop the cable and all that I have noticed that a few of my scan tools do quite well and tech hasn't had to come off the desk for quite some time. I will use it as a final scan quite a bit just to make absolutely certain that I've caught everything but I've noticed one of my cheaper scan tools is quite good and capable and I've not had to pull tech off the desk.
     
  18. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    I would make sure that all of the wires that run down the struts and connect to the brake or connect to the hubs which monitor the brake wheel or the cut wheel or the sector wheel for the ABS to function in bad places these things can get severed deteriorate what have you and apparently they can wreak havoc on the system and cause it to produce similar failures apparently it's worth a look I guess.
     
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