ABS C1467 Faulty Rear Speed Sensor Left

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Technical Discussion' started by echostar, Feb 23, 2020.

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  1. echostar

    echostar Junior Member

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    New York 2013 base prius with 220,000 miles.
    All 4 lights on ABS BRAKE VSC and slip indicator.
    Put car in orange light ignition on, not Ready mode. Scanned with Techstream and got
    C1239 Foreign Object Attached On Tip Of Left Rear Sensor
    C1467 Faulty Rear Speed Sensor Left

    Bearing is physically fine, but I changed Left Rear wheel bearing with the $283 OEM toyota dealer bearing instead of the $50 aftermarket bearing for the sole reason of being absolutely sure the new sensor would turn off the lights and I'd get my *(#$&ing cruise control back (which shouldn't disable itself over this crap anyways, thanks for nothing toyota! Toyota Siennas with VSC and ABS lights on still allow you to use the cruise control!)
    Guess what, that overpriced expensive dealer bearing didn't fix the ABS.

    Cleared ABS codes with techstream and C1239 disappeared but C1467 will NOT CLEAR! It didn't just come back, it won't go away in the first place! Techstream is working correctly because I can execute any of the Active Tests such as ABS solenoids and I hear them work.

    I've unplugged and replugged the Rear Left ABS plug a few times and the connector and pins look perfect, so does the ABS wire that leads all the way back into the cabin.
    Will the "connecting pins 4 and 13" trick do anything special for this code that Techstream clearing won't? I figured it'd be smart to avoid having to relearn solenoid offsets and finding perfectly level ground, etc.
    Where can I find a diagram of which pins 4 and 13 are? Thanks for reading.
     
  2. Elektroingenieur

    Elektroingenieur Senior Member

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    With a Toyota Techstream diagnostic system, you should be able to get the INF (information) code or codes—531 through 538—indicating the problem(s) detected by the skid control ECU, and then refer to the Repair Manual (more info) procedure for C1467/34. Since you’ve already replaced the sensor, it may be a problem with a wire harness or connector.
    See the Test Mode Procedure topic in the Electronically Controlled Brake System section of the Repair Manual. I’d use the C1467 procedure first, however.
     
  3. Colm01

    Colm01 Member

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    Just drive the car. The module is looking for an input from the sensor. Once it sees the sensor is working, the code will go inactive. Then it can be cleared.
     
  4. echostar

    echostar Junior Member

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    Thanks for your replies! I have driven about 1,000 miles on the new wheel bearing.
    In techstream, when I click "Summary" on the C1467 code it pops up a window that says "DTC S305-12 Malfunction is present." then an OK button.
    I don't have a credit card to buy access to the Toyota repair manual website.

    Moving the car in the driveway and watching Techstream "Data List", I see the correct 4 MPH for FL, FR, and RR speed sensors, but RL sensor remains at 0 MPH.
    Should I try telling the Toyota Dealer they gave me a dead wheel bearing? If I have to keep paying labor to swap out wheel bearings until they give me a working one, it will get expensive very quickly.
     
  5. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    You don't really know for certain, that the new bearing is bad.
    It's a pain, but you could swap the left and right bearings. You know the RR sensor is good.
    If you swop them, and still have no reading on the LR, you KNOW it's not the bearing.
    I would suspect the wiring. Inspect it, see if a stick or rock or something got caught and damaged it.
    I've seen that happen and several cars.
    I may be wrong, but I believe you can put an ohm meter on the sensor and spin the wheel, you should get a reading.
    It may also be DC Volts, not ohms, I just can't remember.

     
    #5 ASRDogman, Feb 24, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2020
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  6. pjksr02

    pjksr02 Member

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    At least for my 2010, the SKF wheel hub = the OEM NSK hub; SKF was on the box, NSK (and Aisin) 20190924_102130.jpg was on the bearing. I believe Rock Auto sells the hub under NSK, without the SKF mark-up.

    You can use a new one to diagnose if you received a bad Toyota hub. Hope it is the hub and not the computer.
     
  7. Colm01

    Colm01 Member

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    That's the wheel bearing I bought from Rock Auto too. You can always ohm out the new sensor and compare the reading against the other side sensor reading. Just measure the continuity of the coil. No need to spin the sensor. They should be close to being the same. If they are, you probably have a bad sensor harness. That too can be checked with a ohm meter. The connection is in the hatch floor near the HV battery by the rear seat bottom.
     
  8. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    True enough ... often nobody bothers to check a wire until after replacing the expensive things at both ends of it.
     
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  9. Elektroingenieur

    Elektroingenieur Senior Member

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    In the Techstream application, with the vehicle connected, go to ABS/VSC/TRAC > Trouble Codes and look for a blue snowflake icon (❄️) to the left of the code. Click this icon to bring up the Freeze Frame data, which should include the INF code(s).
    Techstream and the Repair Manual are designed to be used together. As I explained on the Wiki page, you may be able to get access at no cost through your local public library. If not, you could buy a prepaid credit card to subscribe to Toyota TIS; you’d need only the two-day Standard subscription for $20. Consider that this would be much less costly than continuing to buy bearing assemblies.
     
  10. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 'Orrible Oracle

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    Would it be doable to leave the bearings where they are but run jumper wires to spoof they've been swapped? Might be more complicated, lol.
     
  11. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    Certainly. But you're adding resistance. Will it be more of a pain than switching bearings?
    Probably not....
    Since the reason for replacing it was he was not getting a reading from it.
    New OEM bearing, and still the same problem. So doubtful that the sensor is bad.
    It could be bad, but it's very rare. I would suspect the wire. Maybe it's not plugged in all the way.
    And it came that way from the factory. I forget who mentioned it, but he brain box could be defective....

     
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  12. echostar

    echostar Junior Member

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    Yeah I remember reading a thread of a guy removing the wiper cowl and replacing the skid ECU.
    Great ideas guys, I'll get to work attacking those wires and sensors with a multimeter and see what I find! I just assumed I couldn't test the sensor without the wiring connected "providing power" but I see that's not the case!

    I don't have the Freeze Frame info anymore after I cleared it the first time, and it might have been FF info for only the C1239 and not the C1467
     
    #12 echostar, Feb 25, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2020
  13. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    If both bearings have already been very recently replaced, or if there is no salt used where echostar drives, then it might be possible to switch the bearings without wrecking them.

    Otherwise, removal of a Prius hub bearing is typically a you're-not-going-to-reuse-that operation.
     
  14. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    I agree. But from what I read, he only replaced the LR one.
    Quote: ...but I changed Left Rear wheel bearing... unquote

    And the RR one is working. It is the least expensive way.
    Normally, you don't replace ONE wheel bearing, you replace them in pairs.
    They should not get damaged removing them. Even if they are stuck, the worst you'd do
    is back the outer surface rotating it to be able to use bolts to press it out.
    And I KNOW, there are those that want to BEAT the crap out of it to get it off. Which does damage it.

    It is rare they go bad. It's just a magnet passing a sensor. So it's ON then OFF.... etc...
    I personally would have checked out the wiring for damage. Unplugging and cleaning the connections.



     
  15. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    That's the method I would like to be able to find, but I don't think I've ever seen a post of it being successfully done.

    The "I used a bolt to press it out" posts typically look like this:

    [​IMG]

    It gets the bearing out, but it is exactly what bearing manufacturers tell you never to do to a bearing:

    [​IMG]

    If a bearing is pressed onto a shaft, for pressing it on or off you need your tooling to apply force only to the inner ring. If a bearing is pressed into a bore (like the Prius hub bearings into the bore of the axle), you need your tooling to apply force only to that flange and the outer ring.

    If you use the method pictured above with the bolt, you are applying force between the axle and the hub face/inner ring, through the balls and races to try to pull the outer ring out of the bore. That will brinell the bearing, which will not immediately explode or anything when you reinstall it, but you may notice extra noise more or less immediately, and it will die an early death.

    If there were a way to rotate the bearing flange just enough so the holes don't line up, and then somehow use the mounting bolts again to press the flange from the axle, that could be a win. But if I have the right picture of the Gen 3 rear hubs, the hub has the holes that are clear and the axle has the holes that are threaded. You would need to reinstall the bolts from the axle side, and I'm not sure there's access back there to do it.

    If anybody can report successfully doing that, please do, and I'll link to it in future recommendations.
     
  16. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    This way may not get the bearing out. It might just take it apart.
    What I had to do on my Town&Country was us a hammer and punch to rotate the assembly.
    I tapped where the hole is to rotate the hub clockwise or counter clockwise so a flat spot is over the
    threads where the bolt goes through. Then I feed the bolt through the back to push the bearing out.
    I used 2 bolts to put pressure on the hub then smacked it with the hammer and punch. then tightened the
    bolts. It creeped out.
    Took a few minutes, but it was easy. I wasn't worried about ruining the bearing because it was bad.
    But since you are going to switch it to the other side, you don't want it to come apart.

     
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  17. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    That's the one thing I was just suggesting would work and be safe, but had not heard of anyone successfully doing on a Gen 3 Prius. Have you looked back there? I'm not sure the rear axle construction gives you the same access as the Town&Country to feed the bolt through the back.

    If it does, please confirm, and that'll be my recommendation in future posts.

    It might still be worthwhile to give the hub a little spin now and then while tapping at the base to turn it, just so (depending on how much tapping it takes) all that vibration isn't happening with the balls in the exact same places.
     
  18. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    I have a set of rear bearing ready to go on. Just need the time and motivation. :)
    I have no idea how much room there is. Maybe shorter bolts?
    I also sprayed the two surfaces with rust penetrant as I rotated it. It loosened it up.
    I also went both directions with the bearing to loosen it up.

    Think of the stress the bearing are under from normal use... Banging on it won't hurt it.
    Now if you are beating the crape out of it, you don't plan on reusing it so it doesn't matter.

    How easy/hard was it to remove the left side?

     
  19. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 'Orrible Oracle

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    Open letter to Toyota: PLEASE, drill and tap a couple of holes on the rear axle face plates, expressly for use with bolts, to push off the the bearing. Or conversely put a couple of lobes on the bearing flange, again with threaded holes, same purpose.
     
  20. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Eerie déjà vu of four year old thread with 05PreeUs.

    Forces in normal operation are large, but (a) applied while balls are moving, not in a fixed position, and (b) applied over longer timescales (even hitting a sharp bump with an air-filled tire is a slow nudge compared to a metal-on-metal rap from a hammer). A number can be big because the numerator is big, or because the denominator is small.

    Just dropping a bearing by carelessness on a hard floor can damage it. Even one that holds up a 3,000 pound car at 70 mph.

    Hear, hear.
     
    #20 ChapmanF, Feb 25, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2020
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