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ABS pump replacement - now, won't start?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Kevin Lester, Nov 4, 2023.

  1. Kevin Lester

    Kevin Lester Junior Member

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    Hi Folks - I'm stumped after doing the ABS pump replacement - if anyone has good advice, I'd really appreciate it - I'm pretty frustrated, and if being honest, more than a bit worried.

    We have a 2005 with 320k on it. Have done most of the work that its needed myself (I am a pastor, my wife is a teacher, we have to save money any way we can). I often enjoy it, and this car hasn't given us too much trouble that I couldn't handle.

    So, a couple months ago we got the chirping from the brake system, and the buzzing from the ABS pump started happening way more often. Did my research and learned about the ABS system, and that this is signs that the ABS pump is going. Just so happens that a local guy was parting out a Prius that had a bad transmission failue, so I went and pulled the ABS pump so I'd be ready when we needed it.

    Well, we never got the warning codes, but this week, I once felt our brake pedal go straight to the floor. It quickly recovered, but, I said: "fine, it's time." Did a bunch of research, got my tools and my instructions, and felt pretty ready.

    Did the swap yesterday, following instructions - no big issues, just took a LONG time. I triple checked everything on the re-install (I'm an anxious guy, I make sure nothing gets missed). By the time I finished, it was late, so I saved the bleed procedure till this morning.

    Well, this morning our bloved Priuschat was down, and I had planned on following the post on here that laid out the instructions for bleeding the brakes without Teachstream. Bummer.

    So, I tried to just manually bleed the brakes, following the instructions on the Mr. Electric youtube channel, which are, basically: open the lines, depress the brake pedal, and let the pump buzz away while you catch the fluid at each wheel.

    But! I noticed: my ABS pump doesn't buzz - at all. Pressing the brake, opening the door, etc - it never buzzes.

    Out of desperation, I tried pressing the ON button to see if there were any codes, or if it would power up the pump, but no buzz.

    I get all the dash lights as normal, but nothing in the display screen. The engine never kicks on. The transmission and gas gauge lights on the dash blink.

    I tried to pull codes with both Torque and Dr Prius - both show no codes from either the engine or the battery.

    I don't have Techstream, and no windows computer, so it's not an option.

    When Priuschat went back up a moment ago, I excitedly went out to the car and followed the original bleeding steps, which involved "jumping" the OBD to put the car into diagnostic mode. I put my wire in, but hitting ON does nothing different - just he same lights, the same blinking, and no MFD.

    So, at this point, I've had the worst couple of days, and now I'm worried they are about to get worse. If anyone can help me figure out what the problem is, I'd really, really appreciate it. I wish I was in a situation of life where eI could just say "well, you just need to suck it up and take it into the shop" but we can't really afford it. If I "can" figure it out and fix it on my own, I need to.

    Questions I'm left with, mainly: What's the source of my problem? The new pump? My install? The bleeding procedure? Something else?

    1) The pump not buzzing: is this new ABS pump bad, or do I need to "jump" the Prius into the alt mode to get it to, like, activate, and start pumping?

    2) Is the not-starting related directly to this ABS, or did something else go wrong in the process?

    3) Any have any idea what I do now? I'm trying to keep my head while the anxiety is mounting.

    While I wait for any pending advice, I'm going to see if I can check the fuses and the battery. We replaced the 12v recently, but I know they are notorious for causing trouble.

    Note: if the answer can only be found by getting connected to Techstream, and if any of you happen to have access to it and are in my area (Tucson) I would gladly offer a meal, etc if you were willing to help me out.
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    how is the 12 volt health?
     
  3. Primetime Paul

    Primetime Paul Junior Member

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    Check and Charge your 12v battery I would start here.

    Pixel 7 Pro ?
     
  4. Kevin Lester

    Kevin Lester Junior Member

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    AHA! The 12v battery is only showing 7.5 volts.

    Gonna climb in the trunk and pop it out, and see if I can get it charged at the shop down the street. I bought it at Toyota, so if it's DEAD I'll have to wait until Monday to get it warranteed, but I'd like to see if I can get enough juice in it to move a bit forward while I still have a bit of the weekend.
     
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  5. Kevin Lester

    Kevin Lester Junior Member

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    "If I was a rich man..."

    ...I'd just always keep a 2nd 12v battery on hand. These little boxes cause so much pain for an otherwise amazing car.
     
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  6. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I pretty much always have one of those, after the first replacement of the one that came with the car. Doesn't cost anything more than not getting the old-battery core charge back. (And even not getting the core charge back only happens once ... after that, if you replace the battery again, you give back your old spare as the core.)

    On the other hand, keeping a 12 V battery around any length of time as a spare pretty much calls for owning at least a small maintenance/float charger and dedicating a place for the spare battery to live and be plugged in.

    Once you've got 12 volts from the battery, what warning lights are on? If ABS, VSC, or ((!)) are any of them, what blink codes do you get from doing this:

    Blink (a/k/a Flash) Codes – How to. | PriusChat
     
  7. Kevin Lester

    Kevin Lester Junior Member

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    It's currently.on the charger at O'Reilly - they say about 1.5 hrs.

    ...but at least it's charging! Usually when I bring a battery in it fails immediately.
     
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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  9. Kevin Lester

    Kevin Lester Junior Member

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but in this situation (where I need to car to power itself, while stationary, for a while, while I do the brake bleeding process, wouldn't jumping the car be insufficient? From my understanding I could jump the battery, but it would be likely to die out again soon since I'm not driving it around for a while, right?
     
  10. Kevin Lester

    Kevin Lester Junior Member

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    I suppose, though, a jump pack would've helped me get a quicker diagnosis.

    Looking into this is also another reason to watch the Project Farm video where he tests them all :)
     
  11. Kevin Lester

    Kevin Lester Junior Member

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    Update:

    The 12v battery wouldn't charged - they ruled it dead.

    I can't get it replaced until Monday, when the dealership where I bought it is open again. So, I have the rest of today and tomorrow to prepare. I'm really hoping that the new pump is fine, and that with a fresh, working battery, that I'll hear that beloved buzz, and then be ready to move right on to the bleeding.

    Since I have the time, I might see if I can get a windows device and a cable tomorrow, so I can do the brake bleed the standard way on Monday. If anyone has recommendations for cables, etc, that have worked well for you, let me know.

    For running Techstream, I hear it's best to find a device that's still running Windows 7 - is that correct?
     
    #9 Kevin Lester, Nov 4, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2023
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    I only mentioned the jump pack as a less expensive alternative to an extra 12 volt battery , which would have to be kept on a trickle charger.
    And they come in handy if you ever get stranded
     
  13. JohnPrius3005

    JohnPrius3005 Active Member

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    When trying to do things oneself on the cheap ( which I do) patience is necessary. You need these:
    You can get cheap laptops on Amazon and eBay
    Techstream works fine with Windows 10
    Mini VCI cable on Amazon or eBay for techstream
    Foxsur 12 v bat charger on Amazon or eBay
    MightyMax 35Ah bat on eBay or Amazon - doesnt fit exactly but easy to make it work and cheap enough to buy 2

    a few bolts and nuts and a cheap digital voltmeter
    Jumper cables or any working 12 v bat also useful
     
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  14. Kevin Lester

    Kevin Lester Junior Member

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    I've been considering one for a while - would be good to have when we go on trips, camping, etc. It'd also be good to have at my office at the church - occasionally we get folks who park in the lot and get stuck. Not often, but it'd be cool to be ready to help.
     
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  15. JohnPrius3005

    JohnPrius3005 Active Member

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    Costco has these.

    Also if you’re brave or foolish it’s possible to drive in B mode and use the foot emergency brake to stop. Do this only in very low slow traffic areas. It’s cheaper than a tow.
     
  16. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    For anyone planning to use the parking brake for slowing or stopping the car, be sure to practice this. Because of the push-on, push-off ratchet design, practice the quick double-push at first that leaves the ratchet off so you are able to modulate the brake to avoid losing control with locked wheels. Remember you have to do that again whenever you've let the pedal far enough back up to engage the ratchet again.

    Because the parking brake acts only on the rear wheels, and a car in motion takes weight off the rear wheels when slowing, it's not a super effective way of controlling a moving car. Certainly worth a try if your service brakes fail and you're otherwise going to hit something. Worth practicing to see what you can expect.

    There's a wide range of costs in the "as or more expensive than a tow, but less expensive than an accident" category.
     
  17. JohnPrius3005

    JohnPrius3005 Active Member

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    Agree 1000% Chap! Thanks for the warning ;-)
     
  18. Kevin Lester

    Kevin Lester Junior Member

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    I'm ahead on most of this, but I have a couple questions:

    -For a battery charger some other threads recommended the Noco Genius 5 - it came in last night, and I got the optional ring-style connectors, so I can attach and walk away from it w/less worry (it's so hard to clip battery clips to the Prius). Is there something about the Foxsur that's better (other than the price?).

    -The Mighty Max battery - is that a full replacement battery, or just something to sit in temporarily for repairs?

    -While I am looking into the best way to get into Techstream, someone else recommended the Autel AP200 as an upgrade to my current OBD dongle - word from them was it will be able to do the ABS bleeding procedure (they said they were able to do it). I'll get to test it tonight to see if that's true. I know it's likely not as potent a program as Techstream, but if it'll handle everything I need it to handle to get this Prius back in shape ASAP, it's a huge help, and the pressure will be off for me to get a Techstream setup ASAP. It will also be useful with my other car (a 1997 Honda CRV that is *also* over 300k :)

    Thanks for your suggestions, I really appreciate it.
     
  19. JohnPrius3005

    JohnPrius3005 Active Member

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    Hi Kevin,
    Good questions.

    I'm of the opinion, certainly not shared by all, that often various items work just as well as others, and often a higher price simply reflects a desire to make more profits, and advertising hype. Certainly I haven't tested a whole lot of items.

    I like the Foxsurs - I've used them for years. I imported about 30 of them for my use and to give to friends and maybe to sell. (Mine are not listed on eBay or Amazon or anywhere else, nor do I have any promo deal or anything else with Foxsur. I've used other chargers and Foxsurs are better than all of these. BTW I don't find the least problem attaching crocodile clips to Prius bats as long as I remove various interior body pieces.

    Likewise with Mighty Max - it's cheap, it fits into the hole, and its a very minor adjustment to attach the car terminal clamps to the bat terminals. I have 4 of these and they work fine. But it's not a look a like or a "replacement". Just much cheaper.

    I'm sure there are scanners as good as Techstream for what you want to do. Techstream, hacker version, is very low cost, and it is the system designed for Prius officially.

    Good luck with your work, it's no walk in the park for sure.
     
  20. Kevin Lester

    Kevin Lester Junior Member

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    Update!

    I got the new battery from the dealer (and they re-started my warranty! That was nice of them!)

    I had time this morning to hook the battery in, and, voila - the MFD lit up. I went inside and grabbed my fob, and after clicking into ACC I heard the new pump buzz - it's very distinct, but a little quieter than my old pump was. I never thought I'd be so happy to hear that buzz.

    Unfortunately, my landlord came over to work on the house, and I don't feel comfortable working on my car with that kind of an audience, so I went into my office to get some work done this morning.

    When they are finished, I'll head back and attempt the bleeding procedure, and hopefully all will go well! Before starting the bleeding, I'll attach my acquired battery charger so I don't have to worry about draining it right away.

    My original plan was to follow the procedure outlined by two places:
    1) The thread here on PC written up by zak.kapoor here: Replacing brake fluid and bleeding brakes on a GEN II Prius without Techstream | PriusChat

    and/or

    2) The process shown in Mr. Electric's video on bleeding the brakes without a scan tool:


    OR

    3) I have a Autel AP200 coming in to my door sometime before 10pm - and I have been told it can access the ABS procedure similar to Techstream.

    If anyone has any advice on which method is best, I'd be interested in hearing it.

    Thanks, already, for all the input so far, everyone. I love how this car attracts a helpful community!
     
  21. mr_guy_mann

    mr_guy_mann Senior Member

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    You will want some kind of charger on the 12V battery while performing the brake bleed. It can take some time to complete and will often run the 12V down part way through the procedure.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
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  22. Kevin Lester

    Kevin Lester Junior Member

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    Thanks for the encouragement! I grew up in a family with a strong DIY mentality. I try to be careful not to cut too many corners with the tools I get and the way I work, but sometimes it's hard to tell. Also, I've learned that while it's not always possible, when you can, paying a little more for a tool that lasts is worth it. I'm not insane and not a masochist - of course if I could pay a pro to do things the "right" way, I would, but that's just not a reality for us. At this point in my life, and with limited financial resources, when I can, I'd rather invest in the tools and do the work - I learn a lot in the process, and now I don't feel like I'm at the mercy of the mechanic every time something goes out.

    It's all why I so deeply appreciate this forum and YouTube channels that show step by step how to get jobs done - it's really a lifesaver! A couple months ago I was able to do the whole timing belt process on my Honda CRV, along with struts and some suspension work, because folks were willing to share their knowledge and break it down. After I get the brake pump job finished, the Prius is going to get a new belt, and I'm going to change all the fluids (already did the inverter coolant as part of the brake job). We've had it since it only had 75k on it, and I would love to see how far our little tan beauty can go.
     
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