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ABS/Traction control seems to calm down when NOT in Eco mode...

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by herqulees, Dec 11, 2022.

  1. herqulees

    herqulees Junior Member

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    I'm curious if anyone has dealt with these issues as much as I have. I've owned this 2014 Prius for about five years, ever since it left the Toyota lot certified pre-owned it has been in Eco mode. As long as we've owned it and despite having the nice brand new Michelin tires on it with plenty of tread it has always been easy to get the wheels to spin when going from a stop in the rain, and we've learned to let off the brake before hitting even a small pothole in the road or else the ABS will disable the brakes for ~0.5-1 seconds. So we've learned to feather the gas like a grandma even in the lightest sprinkle of rain, and to not use the brakes when slowing down when potholes are coming up. I always told myself when these Michelin tires wear out I'm putting wider tires on the car, but we rarely drive the car and are no wear near wearing the tires out yet. Maybe two more years to go.

    Anyways, I had the car fully loaded with people last week for about 200 miles and turned Eco mode off to help with the added weight, and the wheel spin/pissed off ABS disappeared. I just figured it was because of the added weight, but I decided to leave Eco mode off for the rest of the week despite it just being myself in a completely empty Prius and... the wheels haven't spun once, the ABS doesn't freak out over potholes, nothing. I've seriously been flooring it on bumpy on ramps and slamming the brakes on bumpy off ramps and not had a single issue. Like way more severely than a normal driver would be braking/accelerating. The car for the first time since I bought it has driven like a normal car. We were thinking about trading it in for a Jeep Commander, since we don't care about mpg anymore with how little we drive, but now... we don't see a need to.
    Does anyone have any clue why this happened? Eco mode is terrible traction, Normal mode is fine.
     
  2. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    While mine is significantly more susceptible to this than is my AWD Subaru, it is no worse than its FWD predecessor. Uphill takeoffs on metal covers or polished tar were/are worst, especially during the first rain after months of dry weather.

    Anyone accustomed to winter driving should be able to reflexively respond to this.
    The 'pause' here is nowhere near a full second. Bob Wilson measured it as closer to 0.3 second. And I believe that 'bad' version is not solely from ABS, but from regenerative braking cutting out and needing to switch to friction-only braking. Regenen-only braking is used just for light to moderate braking, it cannot produce stronger levels in this era Prius.

    ABS should cut friction braking only to the affected wheel, not the other 3 wheels, so any pause or cutout should be far less discernible and alarming than the Regen cutout.

    I commonly steer around most potholes. When that is not practical, pressing the brake harder before impact may engage friction pads so that ABS can keep the other wheels engaged. Though hitting potholes with brakes firmly engaged may be undesirable for other reasons.

    This is an absolutely essential skill for serious winter driving, so was baked into my driving style and reflexes from the start.

    Or brake harder before the pothole, then relax while going over.

    I haven't noticed any difference between modes, though haven't checked very close.

    When the car is fully loaded (or more, with 5 adults), the extra mass requires more braking force to achieve a given braking rate. This may help put you over the regen-only threshold into friction braking, which I believe to have much less braking 'pause' feel, as described above. LIkewise, "slamming the brakes" should go straight to friction, also producing less 'pause', regardless of load.

    I have no feedback with regard to the difference you may feel on the acceleration side.
     
  3. CR94

    CR94 Senior Member

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    There's no way can "Eco" (or "Power") mode affect the traction available between tires and the pavement.
     
  4. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Yes—this is one of the very most-discussed things about owning a Prius. They all have done it, all the way back to Gen 1, and it really isn't anything about ABS being 'pissed off'. It is the car, while braking with regen (meaning only the front wheels) deciding that the traction may be iffy enough that it should switch to the hydraulic brakes, which act on all four wheels, so just by itself gives twice the traction to work with. That transition is not, itself, an activation of ABS, but it is a prerequisite (for ABS to happen, the car has to be braking with the hydraulic brakes), so making the transition brings the car one step closer to being able to go that next step, if necessary (if whatever traction issue was detected isn't already resolved by switching from two braking wheels to four).

    The cause isn't always a real road-traction problem (though it can be). It can also just be hitting some bump or pothole so there's a wheel that travels a slightly longer or shorter distance than another one, meaning a difference in wheel speed signals, which is what the ECU uses to judge whether there might be a traction issue.

    You really don't have to do anything special about it. Just keep your foot on the brake where it was. If with the slight hiccup it looks like you'll overshoot where you were aiming to stop, just push a bit harder. Because this only happens during light/moderate braking (harder and you'd have been on hydraulics already), there is always plenty more on tap for you just by pushing harder.

    The explanation hasn't changed much over the years. A great explanation was given fourteen years ago the first time I asked about it. :)
     
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  5. herqulees

    herqulees Junior Member

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    My 2014 Two strongly disagrees. Wheel slip in Eco, no wheel slip in Normal. Haven't tried Power mode as it's not a sports car.
     
  6. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    I'm not recalling anyone else reporting this pattern.
     
  7. herqulees

    herqulees Junior Member

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    I searched for awhile last night and couldn't find anything regarding this issue. So I'm the odd one. All I found were plenty of people complaining about poor traction, braking pauses, how to install wider tires to alleviate it, so on. But no one saying "Turn off Eco mode and all is well."
    It doesn't make any sense to me.
     
  8. CR94

    CR94 Senior Member

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    Launching from a stop in ECO mode, the engine does speed up more in relation to forward acceleration than in the other modes. That behavior has nothing to do with traction of tires against pavement, but I can imagine in might somehow be perceived as slip. ???
     
  9. herqulees

    herqulees Junior Member

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    I should add that with ~90% accuracy I know just how much to press the throttle to cause wheel slip in Eco, which is confirmed by the traction control light on the dash flashing. Same goes for brakeing; traction control light flashes.
     
  10. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    It would be interesting to post the ABS/Traction History freeze frames for a few of those incidents, in and out of ECO mode.