Adding Diesel motor to prius then taking both motors and in BMW

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Lilith @ Jul 11 2007, 05:24 PM) [snapback]477138[/snapback]</div>

You're wrong. There is plenty of info at Priuschat to explain how the car works. It doesn't work quite like this. And the simple switch your boyfriend proposes shows he doesn't understand how the car works either.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Lilith @ Jul 11 2007, 05:24 PM) [snapback]477138[/snapback]</div>

I'm guessing, no, it has not been taken into consideration. Read some of the previous posts and do so searching of the site.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Lilith @ Jul 11 2007, 05:24 PM) [snapback]477138[/snapback]</div>

Putting a diesel engine in a Prius would not make it cleaner, biodiesel or not.

The computer runs everything and it's is very specifically calibrated to do what it does.

If Prius could be set to run on E85 or BioDiesel or a diesel version of the Prius were possible, I'm sure Toyota would have released one by now. Diesel is big in Europe and a Diesel/Electric Prius in Europe would have a market.

Not all hybrids are built the same. I don't think the Prius is a good candidate for this.

That blog was interesting, and I can see where you got the idea. But I'd also read up on biodiesel and carbon neutral on this website. I don't think Jamais Cascio knows how the Prius works either, nor is he completely knowledgeble on biodiesel, carbon neutrality or the problems between greenhouse gases and straight out pollution. Basically that article is opinion and a wishlist. The blog is also three years old.

 

A Diesel engine wants to run continuously. A Diesel engine would do better in a pure series hybrid, not in a mostly-parallel hybrid like the Prius (the comment in the worldchanging.com article calling Prius a series hybrid is simply wrong). If The Boss really wants a Diesel hybrid BMW, trying to cram Prius parts into it will only delay the project and cripple the final result. Much better, as someone else suggested, to first make an electric drive BMW and then add a Diesel motor-generator to it.

In any case, by the time one person working alone could build one they will probably be available from more than one dealer.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Lilith @ Jul 11 2007, 05:24 PM) [snapback]477138[/snapback]</div>

This project would have much better odds for success if your boyfriend was a software engineer.

I'm curious...*are* you impressed by the whole thing?


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Perhaps he could jack up the radiator cap of the BMW, and drive a new car underneath?

Prob'ly the most reasonable way to go.

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This isn't primarily a fabrication project.

Oh, sure there would be some cutting and welding. Your boyfriend might be able to get the parts to fit, physically...but getting them to work together is quite likely beyond him.

Actually achieving *real world* (not theoretical) operating efficiencies equal to or superior to the Prius', I feel quite safe to say, will not happen in the manner in which you suggest, with the resources you've mentioned.

 

Most important of all: Welcome.

The idea may be ambitious, but the motivation is good. The uniqueness of the Prius drive train will become clearer the more that it is understood. The engine and the transaxial (which has all the motor/generators) are designed to operate as an integrated unit, mechanically, software-wise, and electrically. Severing this right in the middle presents very great technical problems which are clear to many who have been trying to understand how all the internals work. There is no manual for this at all. Once the whole system is understood, he probably will become very aware that the software aspects are far more complicated than the mechanical aspects.

 

Hi Lilith,

Welp, I would advise against this adventure. Its not a matter of intelligence, but also a very large background in the Prius system, and all the technologies that the Prius systems are built on.

The successful projects your friend has achieved do not require the technological background the Prius is built on. I am not trying to belittle what he has done, as a degreed engineer I would have found them challenging. Maybe even beyond me, as I am not a mechanical engineer.

As an electrician, he probably can handle the safety aspects. I know I could have at 20 years old, and I am more than twice that age now.

The main problem is the synchrony between the car, transmissionm, batteries and engine. This is all handled by multiple computers which talk between each other on a special computer network, called a CAN (Controller Area Network), with a combination of standard and custom hybrid messaages (in the special car CAN digital packet communications protocol).

You see, this is not like swapping one engine designed for a truck with a mechanical transmission, with another engine designed for a truck with a mechanical transmission. Even if one was a gasoline engine, and another a diesel. For the Prius he will need to develop the control computer for the diesel, and get it to mimic the gasoline engine computer in the Prius, which includes developing the computer communication responses and requests the engine system makes/takes to/from all the other computers in the Prius.

Otherwise, when the main computer in the Prius senses an accellerator pedal push, and tells the engine what torque to run at, the engine will just sit there. Or if he gets it wrong, the engine spools off to too high a RPM.

What might actually be easier, but somewhat more danagerous unfortuneately, is to develop a way to crack the bio-diesel down into something more like gasoline. Like possibly butanol. And run the Prius on that. As the goal is to use the bio-diesel I believe. The Prius gets better mileage in the city than a diesel anyway. And does not have the turbo to burn-out. It might be done with a catalyst and a source of hydrogen (say like natural gas).

 

First of all, thank you for all your suggestions; it has become clear that the Prius works well as its own entity, and nothing less.

It was literally just an idea, the choice to use a Prius was not set in stone; it was purely a thought, as the car is a nice little hybrid that could have worked for this project. I admit I had not done all my research, as I did not expect to have this idea posted for all to see, especially before it was fully worked out. It was, again, just an idea. Please don't regard me as ignorant for not doing said research, as my boyfriend is swamped at work and will not even start planning this project for months, if not longer, so I had no reason to look it up. I replied hastily, as I wanted to clarify to everyone that it was not just another backyard project done by some random kid. I wish I could have posted this myself, later down the line, after I had done enough research to even consider looking for Prius parts. I will look elsewhere for ideas. And I guess, I won't tell anyone about potential projects until I've done my research, for fear of this happening again.



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("donee")</div>

I will have to try this someday (safely of course!).

 

Lilith, welcome to the site. If the goal of the project was stated as "to create a diesel-electric hybrid" there would have been a warmer reception. GM built this powertrain some 50 years ago for the railroads. I believe this project is too much for one or two people to complete in a reasonable amount of time. My recommendation is to approach local high schools and universities to determine if there is a car club that is willing to work on such a project. I am sure there is a group that would be thrilled to work on the boss' BMW. He would provide the use of the car (retaining title) and at least some of the resources. The club members provide the sweat. These "kids" (about your age) are capable of building a serviceable car on a shoestring and may have some ideas that may take the car in a slightly different direction.

I think you have a viable project and there are organizations that can assist. Here's a link that might provide some leads: http://www.eevc.info/eevc_html_links.html and Oliver Perry (e-mail address on the site) should be able to provide some advice on how to contact the schools. Good luck with the project. If this progresses please keep us posted (in the other cars forum).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JimN @ Jul 11 2007, 08:35 PM) [snapback]477233[/snapback]</div>

I wish it had been; the Prius was just one of the choices that we were going to look into, not the final decision. Thank you for your suggestions though!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Lilith @ Jul 11 2007, 05:24 PM) [snapback]477138[/snapback]</div>

Nope. You're describing the Chevy Volt. For that (upcoming) car, you pull out the gas engine, and put in a tiny turbo diesel and you will probably be in good shape. I would recommend doing that.

As others point out, the Prius is not as simple as you describe. The power train is a sophisticated computer-controlled ballet between two motor-generators (MG1 and MG2), one internal combustion engine, and the mass of the car itself. At any given time, the MGs can both be running as generators or as motors, or they can be split. The gas engine can be on or off at this time.

The Chevy Volt will be a series hybrid - look into that.

Good luck, welcome, and be careful. 500 Volts in the Prius can kill pretty quickly!

 

I say do it and have fun! But whatever you do don't come back here to this forum cause all you will find is a bunchadisgruntlednaysayingliberalwhiners who can't stand the idea of someone having fun doing new and different things.

Good Luck and God Bless

But most of all have fun . . .


Wildkow

p.s. Didn't read every single post here cause I got sick of reading all the negative comments. So if by chance any poster here wasn't a naysayer sorry, to the rest of you how pityful. <_<

 

^^^

If you actually read through the whole thread, you'd know why there are all the legitimate naysayers, and why the project isn't feasible.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Presto @ Jul 21 2007, 03:41 PM) [snapback]482918[/snapback]</div>

Good thing the Wright Brothers, Thomas Edison or Alexander Fleming didn't hang here. Do you realize how many things have been discovered or invented because of failure? Without the attempt, failure can never take place, many great things would have never been discovered. . .

Positive anything is better than negative nothing. - Elbert Hubbard

Just because something doesn't do what you planned it to do in the first place doesn't mean it's useless. . .
Results? Why, man, I have gotten lots of results! If I find 10,000 ways something won't work, I haven't failed. I am not discouraged, because every wrong attempt discarded is often a step forward.... Thomas A. Edison,