Adding extra battery to 2014 PiP

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by YL Yedi, Aug 27, 2014.

  1. GregP507

    GregP507 Senior Member

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    That's what emoticons are for. :rolleyes:
     
  2. GregP507

    GregP507 Senior Member

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    Looks like the MPG (not MPGe) is around 40. Strike out on fuel economy.
     
  3. mindmachine

    mindmachine Member

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    How much do you think that would weigh let alone the mess from lead acid batteries!!
     
  4. GregP507

    GregP507 Senior Member

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    Look this up for me: sarcasm
    Thanks
     
  5. mindmachine

    mindmachine Member

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    Well that's for people who use the Rex regularly, with 80 miles Ev range wont be using the gas very much unlike the PIP with only 12 to 14 miles ev range. MPGe 117 for the REx and 124 for the BEV....
     
  6. mindmachine

    mindmachine Member

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    Why would I bother!!!
     
  7. GregP507

    GregP507 Senior Member

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    EV range always comes at a cost; namely interior space, fuel economy, power, reliability, cost or any combination thereof. That's why the Prius wins.
     
  8. miscrms

    miscrms Plug Envious Member

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  9. miscrms

    miscrms Plug Envious Member

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    It actually has a very specific, and I think useful meaning. It is a measure of the overall thermal and mechanical efficiency of a vehicle. That is, of the total energy consumed from any source, how much of it is used to move me from point A to point B. Since people are used to relating the efficiency of a vehicle to MPG, it makes sense to use this as a common point of comparison for alternately fueled vehicles.

    In a traditional ICE powered vehicle there are many ways to improve overall efficiency, such as:
    - Increase thermodynamic efficiency of the engine itself (diesel, lean burn, Atkinson/HSD, etc)
    - Decrease weight (less energy wasted moving the mass of the vehicle around)
    - Reduce mechanical/friction losses (better transmission, LRR tires, better aerodynamics, etc)
    - Operator related (route, speed, hypermiling, etc)

    Switching to a different fuel / energy source (or blending multiple sources) changes some of the efficiency factors, but the same basic ideas apply. For a given amount of energy, how efficiently does a given vehicle use that energy to do its job of moving you around.

    To compare the efficiency of vehicles using different fuels you need to use a common unit of energy. One such measure would be BTUs. We could easily express the efficiency of all vehicles in miles per BTU, but that wouldn't mean much to anyone. So instead, it makes sense to use the amount of energy contained in a typical gallon of gasoline as a unit of energy that generally has some meaning to people.

    1 typical gallon of gasoline = 114,000 BTU
    1 typical gallon of diesel = 129,500 BTU = 1.135 equivalent gallons gasoline (MPG/1.136 = MPGe)
    1 typical gallon of LNG = 75,000 BTU = 0.658 equivalent gallons gasoline (MPG/0.658 = MPGe)
    1 typical gallon of LPG = 84,300 BTU = 0.739 equivalent gallons gasoline (MPG/0.739 = MPGe)
    1kWh Electricity = 3,413 BTU = 0.0299 equivalent gallons gasoline (Mi/kWh / 0.0299 = MPGe)

    Two vehicles that do the same amount of work (such as completing an EPA driving cycle) using the same total combined energy from all sources will have the same MPGe rating, regardless of the source of that energy. That has a specific and useful meaning. When you say 99MPGe, it means you could actually travel 99 miles on the amount of energy contained in one gallon of gasoline, as long as you did it under the same conditions as the test. In this case by repetitions of the EPA driving cycle.

    Your example of "roping your car to a truck on the freeway" is exactly the reason to use MPGe and not just MPG. A Volt or Leaf would get infinite MPG on the EPA driving cycle if all you counted was gasoline consumed. That would tell you absolutely nothing about the efficiency of the vehicle. MPGe lets you know directly how much energy was used, independent of source.

    That doesn't mean it tells you everything you might like to know, but it is a relatively fair apples to apples comparison of the efficiency of vehicles that is independent of fuel source.

    Rob
     
  10. miscrms

    miscrms Plug Envious Member

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    IMHO the PiP is a better electric vehicle too. Albeit one very limited in range and performance ;)
     
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    no,no, he was putting a prius drivetrain in a camaro.(y)
     
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    just search bill the engineer.
     
  13. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    Crasher parts to convert to pip | Page 2 | PriusChat
    He was putting a Prius V drivetrain in a Firebird and renamed it Firebrid.
     
  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    right! firebird, camaro, whaddo i know? i'm not a 60's car guy.:p
     
  15. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    Yeah all he wanted was a convertible with Prius drivetrain. He started thinking about using a PiP but went to a Prius V and was thinking of adding the HS250h electric motor because of the heavier weight of the convertible. That motor is almost double the horsepower of the PiP.
     
  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i have no doubt he will pull off whatever he puts his mind to.;)
     
  17. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    Exactly like the PiP is a better electric vehicle than the Tesla Model S P85 ;)
     
  18. miscrms

    miscrms Plug Envious Member

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    All depends on one's definition of "better" for sure. From an electric drive efficiency standpoint....

    DC Wh (Wh/mi : MPGe) to complete UDDS CS (no gasoline consumed by any vehicle):
    2013 PiP: 1208.6 Wh (162.1 Wh/mi : 208 MPGe)
    2012 i-MiEV: 1289.4 Wh (172.8 Wh/mi : 195 MPGe)
    2013 Leaf: 1350.4 Wh (181.0 Wh/mi : 186 MPGe)
    2014 CMAX E: 1633.3 Wh (218.9 Wh/mi : 154 MPGe)
    2013 Volt: 1668.6 Wh (223.7 Wh/mi : 151 MPGe)

    Argonne TTRDC - D3 (Downloadable Dynamometer Database)

    No data for Model S which while an awesome car in many many ways, most likely comes in near the bottom of the list on efficiency based on its official MPGe rating.

    Rob
     
    #58 miscrms, Aug 28, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2014
  19. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Too bad he didn't go with the AWD Hi-Hy or its sister hybrid, the 400h Lexis SUV. The dual electric motors could really fill the bill.
    .
     
  20. Squirt

    Squirt Member

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    Agree 100%. One thing that's worth mentioning, though, is that the battery size of the PiP allows the owner to regen and store a significant amount of energy while going through elevation changes. I can capture an additional 3-4 miles during a long downhill stretch on my way to work every day and avoid burning any fuel. A standard Prius would be wasting most of that energy turning the ICE or through conventional braking. In this sense, the larger battery actually does improve mpg, but plugging in has nothing to do with it.
     
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