After 3 Prii, I finally said good bye. (Not to PC though!)

Well I was planning on a Gen III...

 

If you haven't already, look at the C-max vs the Prius. We have both - a 2010 Prius III with about 130k (purchased used with 83k) and a 2014 C-max SE with 58K (purchased used with 33k).
Both are good cars, and have been very reliable. You should know that the C-max was developed first for the Euro market, where it is very popular (especially in Germany). It is sold in the U.S. mainly as a way to reduce Ford's corporate average fuel economy, and probably has the lowest profit margin of any vehicle in Ford's fleet. That's why you never see it advertised. Ford dealers hate C-maxs, because there is no corporate marketing support and because it takes too much effort to explain why they exist. Pretty much the only people who buy them are the people who come in looking for them. With gas prices low, those profit margins have fallen even farther. You can easily negotiate your way into a new 2017 Ford C-max SE today for under $20k, which is only a little more than I was prepared to pay for the used $2014 model I bought two years ago. Dealers are eager to get rid of them.
Pluses for C-max:
Amazing low-end torque. It's like a swift kick in the butt when you barely tap the 'gas" pedal, vs. the Prius in ECO just getting rolling. C-max handles like a car and is far quieter inside than the Prius.
Local driving efficiency - can easily cover 3-4 mi in summer on flat roads with C-max on battery alone, vs only 1/4 mi at normal speeds with Prius. Wife gets close to 50 mpg around town in C-max in summer, 42 in winter.
Fit and finish - C-max is a well-made, fully equipped vehicle, even in its base model. Cloth seats are comfortable and well supported. Spills wipe up easy. If you're in the north, C-max is the only car I know that offers heated seats ($250 winter package) on base-model, cloth seats version (setting 5 will burn your buns off). On my Prius, I've had to super-glue various plastic parts back on, the "leatherette" on the IV model is thin and cheap like carpeting, and mono, geeky display in 2010 is no match for color coded C-max instruments.
Driving position - Wife likes the higher position in the C-max vs the Prius. She also hates visibility lost to the deflector bar across the back window of the Prius.
Yes, the elevated rear deck on the C-max does eat up some cargo volume, but it's not the vertical space lost that bothers me. It's the narrow horizontal space that means I can't fit a set of golf clubs horizontally across the back, which I can do in the Prius. If you do mostly local driving, don't need to haul a lot in the back (and can fold down all or half of the back seat when you do), the C-max is a great car.

 

I think what hurt Ford and C-Max sales was the revelation and early admission that Ford had "fudged" EPA fuel economy numbers.
That news came out a few years back, and probably unfairly tainted the outlook in regards to their Hybrid offerings. You only get to make a 1st impression once, and when that news breaks? It stumbles you out of the gate.

Toyota and Prius have enjoyed the 50 mpg moniker, and without any stories of this being a fudged number. In fact, many owners will talk of exceeding that number.
I could and did on many occasions.

That doesn't have anything to do with what the actual C-Max product is...and yes, most owners seem to love them. But headlines like fudged EPA numbers and recalls...can really hurt even a great products sales figures.

 

Please maintain your relationship with Prius Chat.
I'd like to hear how you feel your ownership experience goes,- long term. Especially given your experience with Prius.

People who can offer honest experience and comparison between "Hybrids" are a valuable commodity.

 

What do they have in common in their maintenance and usage histories that is different from histories of the oil guzzlers?

 

i wish we knew. it could be that toyota made some technical improvements, idk. it is hard to take a poll here and get good information, replies are too sketchy, and you're relying on peoples interpretations of their maintenance and driving habits.

 

Don't misunderstand - I like my Prius. I knew about the oil problem when I bought it (private sale), and while the original owner denied seeing it, mine has been an oil burner since day one (at 83,000, about 2,000 mi/quart). I hypermile a lot in summer and live where it's hilly, so I can easily get 50-plus in the Prius if I work at it. It's just that the C-max is comfortable, quiet, and drives like a pure ICE vehicle with a turbo kick (and associated fuel penalty) on the highway, but also rolls way farther on pure battery (SE version, not the plug-in) around town than the Prius. C-max is our #1 choice for long trips so long as fuel remains under $3. But I also tell people that we made a 1,800 trip from Midwest to East Coast and back in the Prius for $75 in gas a couple years ago.

 

EPA fuel economy #s on the sticker are never an issue for me. I pay attention only to real-world experiences, and would never buy any model in its first year (there are significant problems with 2013 C-maxs). I was also persuaded by a friend in Germany who didn't own a C-max, but said those that have one love them. When describing the C-max to people who have never heard of it, I just tell them that it's a Ford Focus with batteries and a big butt. That pretty well covers it.

 

Yes. Back in '13, more features, more room, stronger EV (larger battery) and ICE power and a better, local dealer where just some of things that convinced me to try the CMax platform and I'm glad I did.

Well someone should have told me! Yes, in the Energi cargo space is limited by the larger battery but the hatch works fine in the real world and will hold a full shopping cart with enough grocery items for a family of four. It was other folks posting similar pictures that convinced me that it may work in the real world and to at least go test drive one. The hybrid version is a better choice for folks with a priority on cargo space.

Yes, the things I previously mention do come at a price (there's no free lunch); a price I didn't mine paying as having the best fuel economy is no longer the utmost criteria for me.

Ford's hybrid drivetrain is very similar to the HSD and they have been playing hop-scotch with each other in their new model releases. Driving the Energi and our Gen2 Prius back to back is like night & day. Now in 2017, Toyota is ahead with the Prime so it will be very interesting to see what the upcoming Escape PHEV (and/or other) will be like.

 

Ford Will Discontinue C-Max Production for U.S. Market - Motor Trend

 

Yes, maybe Toyota did make improvements later, but some 2020s and 2011s are running around with over 200k and not guzzling oil. I even know a couple. There must be some good reason for the difference, but I have not heard a convincing one yet.

 

Head gasket issues is not a widely reported problem. It can happen on any older car. It all depends on ones style of driving and how ones car has been cared for. As to oil burning, it IMO it's not the fault of Toyota but the fault of the requirement to use 0W-20 oil in the US and pushing oil changes to 10,000 miles. Oil burning is mostly reported in the US and not it other countries that are using thicker oil. I am currently using 0W-40 Europen formula Mobil 1 oil and average 55 MPG.

 

Again it depends on how a car is cared for and driven. There are a lot more Prii on the road then Insights. I had a first gen Insight. Had issues with smog sensors. So they have their own issues. If It's a design flaw why is oil consumption been mainly reported in the USA? The real flaw is that Toyota decided to go with a light weight oil that seeps past the rings. But if look across the entire auto industry oil burning is becoming common place and they all are using 0W-20 weight.