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Air conditioner blows warm when stopped

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by drive2much, Jun 26, 2011.

  1. drive2much

    drive2much Junior Member

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    I have a 2005 Prius. I have been to 3 dealerships on 4 different occasions and have received 4 different answers. I'd rather know what is truly wrong before I pay to replace the entire system part by part. I'd appreciate any help with this.

    The problem is that my air conditioner works well the first drive of the day or after many hours of sitting but blows warmer upon subsequent trips. With subsequent trips, it still tries cooling somewhat but blows only slightly cooler than the outside temperature. Even with the first trip, the temperature definitely blows warmer when I'm slowing or stopped. One example: at a long stop light, it went from blowing 58 degrees to 87 degrees (warmer than the outside temperature of 81 degrees). It will start cooling again a while after I start driving again. I have read that Prius compressors have electric motors so speed is not supposed to be an issue.

    I really do not want to go through another hot summer without air, so I'd appreciate any info you can provide. Thanks!
     
  2. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    What were the four different answers regarding the root cause of your AC problem?
     
  3. kenoarto

    kenoarto Senior Member

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    Where are you what are the outside temps? Recirc or Fresh?
     
  4. drive2much

    drive2much Junior Member

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    Dealer #1 said it was the dirty cabin air filters. They were replaced and no change.
    Dealer #2 Checked for leaks, none found. Said it was the condenser. They measured the temperature of the high pressure line right after the compressor. It measured 200 degrees. They measured the temperature of that same line right before the condenser, and it measured 100 or 150 degrees. The drop in temperature tells them that the condenser has a blockage. But, if they replace the condenser and it does not fix the problem, then they would also recommend replacing the compressor. (Shortly after this diagnosis, I found out from another Prius owner that they diagnosed and replaced the expansion valve, then the condenser because they gave him the same blockage story but no blockage was found when the condenser was cut open and inspected, then the compressor. I didn't trust them after that.)
    Back to Dealer #1 - They said it was the compressor because it's noisy.
    Dealer #3 Checked for leaks. Found the charge was low. Recharged it and said it was fine. It's not.
     
  5. drive2much

    drive2much Junior Member

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    Should have added that Dealer #3 says the compressor is fine because it cycles just fine. Tech didn't notice a noise, although I hear a loud buzz when the AC is on.
     
  6. drive2much

    drive2much Junior Member

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    I am in Denver.

    When the temperature of the blowing air went from 58 degrees to 87 degrees, it was 81 degrees outside, I had the AC on max cold and high fan.

    Today the outside temps were in the low 90s. I tried all combinations of fresh and recirculating, max cold and high fan, max cold and auto, 69 degrees and auto. I still had the problem with warm air blowing when slowing or stopped. The cooling worked less well when I used the car within only a couple hours of the last trip.
     
  7. koolingit

    koolingit Member

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    Does the MFD display the proper outside temperature? Does that Temp reading on the MFD climb when the car is standing still with the AC on?

    The MFD outside air temperature reading should be pretty close to the actual outside air temperature whether the car is moving or standing still.
    If it's reading high (especially after the engine has warmed up and the thermostat has opened) and climbs higher when the car is standing still, then the radiator fans are blowing hot engine compartment air out through the hot radiator and then through the AC condenser. The AC doesn't work well under these conditions -- the condenser wants the coolest outside air available.

    When the fans are working right, they're pulling outside air through the condenser and then through the radiator towards the engine. That delivers much cooler air to the condenser and the AC works much better.

    The two fans by the radiator rotate in opposite directions. If the blade for the right fan is put on the left motor and vice versa, then both fans will be moving air in the wrong direction. Is it possible you or a previous owner had some kind of work done that required disturbing the fans? This has happened to others and they had similar symptoms.

    Good luck -- correcting something like this would be a lot cheaper than replacing a compressor or condenser.
     
  8. jdcollins5

    jdcollins5 Senior Member

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    ^ Good point about the radiator fans koolingit.

    Patrick has pointed this test out several times in the past. With the car in Ready, open the hood and verify the fans behind the radiator are running. Standing in front of the front grill, see if you feel air blowing toward you. If you do, then the fans are running backwards and are pushing hot engine air through the radiator and condensor instead of pulling cooler air in front of the car.

    If the fans are running backwards, you will only notice this when the car is sitting still. Once moving the natural flow of air will overtake the radiator fans.

    If you are not sure, hold a piece of paper in front of the grill. The paper should be pulled in to the grill if the fans are running in the proper direction.
     
  9. drive2much

    drive2much Junior Member

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    The outside air temps that the MFD shows are usually within a couple degrees of what other sources say. I have not noticed temps going up or down just sitting at a light. I do appreciate your feedback, and I will check the fans. It's easy enough to do, and it never hurts to check. Thanks!
     
  10. koolingit

    koolingit Member

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    I agree with everything you said except the part about the reverse fans having no effect when the car is moving. I'll grant you that at highway speeds, the fans will have no effect but when tooling around the city, the fans will have some effect. The slower you go, the more effect -- bad effect.

    There is a thread here somewhere about a member complaining that his car overheated going up this one hill. I can't remember what other conditions were. If I find the thread, I'll edit this message.

    It took a long time to discover his fans were reversed,
     
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  11. drive2much

    drive2much Junior Member

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    Just received answer number 5 from dealer number 3. They say it's the expansion valve. The service adviser was not able to tell me why they believe that other than the tech said it's sticking open or closed. It's hard to part with lots of money when nobody agrees on what's wrong. I will check the radiator fans as suggested above when I get my car back, but any other info on whether the dealers' theories hold water would be greatly appreciated.
     
  12. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Please check to see whether the radiator fans are running at all, when you set the AC to MAX COLD and the cabin fan to full speed. If they are not working, this would explain why your AC works when you are at speed but not when at a stop or at slower speeds.

    It is unlikely that the radiator fans are blowing in the wrong direction. However it is possible that the fans are not working at all.

    The problem that I have with the other theories is that none of them explain why the AC works OK during your first trip of the day, when you are traveling at speed.
     
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  13. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    Fans blowing the wrong direction don't seem uncommon on vehicles with repaired front end damage.

    Follow Patrick's advice and report back. Good Luck!
     
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  14. drive2much

    drive2much Junior Member

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    We checked the fans, and (unfortunately) they are blowing in the correct direction.

    I got more information from the tech who said it's the expansion valve. He said the pressure on the low pressure side of the expansion valve is reading too high, and the pressure reading on the high pressure side of the expansion valve is too low. We asked if the reading fluctuated at all during his test, and he said no, they were quite consistent throughout the test. He said he has replaced numerous sticking expansion valves.

    I think my next step is to write Toyota. I may not get a resolution to this, but at least they should know that their dealerships can't agree on a diagnosis and I do not know where to turn next.
     
  15. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    The expansion valve sounds like a good part to change since it isn't too expensive compared to the alternatives.
     
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  16. koolingit

    koolingit Member

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    Pressure readings like that could also indicate a bad compressor.

    I think you'd do a lot better if you could find a shop that did nothing but auto AC work -- one that's been around a while.

    An experienced AC man can really get a lot of information out the gauges.
     
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  17. drive2much

    drive2much Junior Member

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    It's my understanding that the expansion valve does not cost much, but the labor will. They were quoting $950. I have no idea what others charge for this.

    I was quoted $2100 to replace the compressor by the first dealership. I believe a new condenser was between $800 and $900.
     
  18. drive2much

    drive2much Junior Member

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    A friend also recommended going to a person who specializes in AC. I only found one business in the yellow pages. Hard to believe that there is only one AC business in the Denver area. Does anybody out there know of a good AC person?
     
  19. drive2much

    drive2much Junior Member

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    Speaking of front end damage . . . my car was in a collision and the condenser had to be replaced. So my question is whether compressor oil needs to be added / replaced when the condenser is replaced? If so, and the repair shop used the wrong compressor oil, what problems would that cause?
     
  20. Bon Temps

    Bon Temps New Member

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    I am having the same problem - what is interesting is that up until now the air was working just fine - so how could it be that the fans would reverse by themselves? I have only taken the car to get the oil changed. No other mechanic touched it.