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Airconditioning stopped putting out cold air?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by drmanny3, Feb 14, 2014.

  1. drmanny3

    drmanny3 Member

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    I have 102,000 miles on my 2006 Prius. It has been problem free. Today, I noticed that the air conditioner did not put out any cold air. I looked at the sight glass and I can see bubbles. The fan noise is rather loud. In fact it is very loud. So I ordered a new fan housing with both fans. However, I am still wondering about the air conditioner not working. Anyone out there have some ideas on what I should check out? The serpentine belt seems ok. Are there any fuses that I should check? The interior fan is working ok. Could it be that I am low in Freon?
    Thanks,
    Manny
     
  2. dorunron

    dorunron Senior Member

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    If you see bubbles, it is low on the gas in the A/C system. It is NOT the standard FREON you buy at the parts house. DO NOT under any circumstances put any of that in your system. You can only use R134A without oil! It has to be filled precisely or it will not work properly.

    Your A/C system needs to be checked and or repaired by someone who is knowledgeable on the Prius A/C system. The Prius also has a electric compressor, so you don't have a belt to drive it. The belt on the engine only drives the water pump.

    My best suggestion is to have Toyota service it.

    The other noises you mentioned I cannot comment on.

    Best of luck to you and I hope this helps you.

    Refer to this thread for more information.

    Simply want to Add Refrigerant to A/C | PriusChat
     
  3. drmanny3

    drmanny3 Member

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    As I understand the second generation Prius uses a drive belt. It is only the third generation that went to an electric compressor? Has anyone out there topped off their Freon?
     
  4. jdenenberg

    jdenenberg EE Professor

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    No! Only the first gen Prius had a drive belt for the AC compressor. Gen2 (and later) Prii have an electrically driven compressors. The serpentine belt in the Gen2 Prius only drives the engine coolant pump and was eliminated in later Prii in favor of an electrically driven engine coolant pump.

    JeffD
     
  5. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Traditionally, you want to see a moderate amount of bubbles in the sight glass, as the AC runs through a cycle. Just a few whizzing by, and as it shuts down there's sort of crescendo of bubbles, as it stops. Not sure about the Prius, if it's any different.
     
  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    It's debatable. No bubbles can be ok, or a sign of overcharged. FWIW, here's an excerpt from 3rd gen repair manual.
     

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  7. nh7o

    nh7o Off grid since 1980

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    Yes, there are those who have topped off their systems. But having to do so means that there is a leak somewhere. So do take the advice and have a pro give it a look, and fix that leak. Unlike those systems with a rotating shaft, which are expected to leak slightly over time, the Prius is sealed and ought to be leak free.

    And to repeat, Freon is dead. No more freon anywhere (except in Russia perhaps). R134a is not as euphonious, but is the correct type of refrigerant. You might give Avi's Advanced Automotive a call and see what they can do for you.
     
  8. dorunron

    dorunron Senior Member

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    No, as stated before the serpentine belt is only used to drive the water pump on the Gen II Prius.

    Both second and third gen utilize the electric compressor.

    Yes, the R134A has been recharged on our Prius. That was after repairs were made to a leaking condenser that was damaged by a foreign object thrown up from the road.

    It is normal to see a few bubbles when the system starts and shuts down, but bubbles all the time when compressor is running is a good sign the system is low. If the glass is completely clear 100% of the time, that usually indicates either overcharge or no charge on the system.

    I again suggest you have your system checked by a professional. You really don't want to cheap out when it comes to the A/C system on the Prius. Trying to save a buck may end up costing you several. Best to leave it someone who knows their way around the Prius and it's A/C system.

    Best of luck to you!
     
  9. drmanny3

    drmanny3 Member

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    I took the car in to Tustin Toyota. They evacuated the system then recharged it. They also added dye to check for leaks. The ac does not provide for cold air. I have noticed that only if I am driving does the inlet feel cool. If at a stop there is a feeling that the air is warm suggesting that something is not right. I was thinking that the fan in front of the radiator is not working as well as it should. I ordered a new unit with both fans. However, now I am thinking that perhaps something is wrong with the compressor. Anyone out there have issues with their compressor not working correctly. What were the symptoms?
    Thanks,
    Manny
     
  10. dorunron

    dorunron Senior Member

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    A few questions for you.

    1. Is the cabin air filter clean?
    2. What is the ambient temperature outside when you think the A/C is not cooling?
    3. What is the A/C temperature control set at?
    4. Are you using "auto" mode?
    5. If no "auto mode", what is the fan speed set on?
    6. Is the "recirculate" feature on or off?
    7. Is the condenser clean and free of debris?
    8. Do you still see bubbles in the sight glass since it was serviced?
    9. Are you sure the electric fans for the radiator working properly?
     
  11. drmanny3

    drmanny3 Member

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    1. yes
    2. 74
    3. 68
    4. auto
    5. auto
    6. yes
    7. ok
    8.no
    9.yes
     
  12. dorunron

    dorunron Senior Member

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    Your reply to question #6 is not clear. I asked if recirculate was on or off, you answered yes.

    Anyway, based on the answers you gave me I would speculate that the system sounds close to normal. One thing I should have asked was if it was daytime or nighttime when you experience the problem. The system reacts differently due to the amount of light hitting the car (day and night). During the night 74 outside 68 setting inside would probably give you cooler air when moving then sitting after the car has been driven a while. During the daytime it should work better.

    FWIW, a lot of time problems like what you describe is caused by blocked condensers or fans not working. You might want to double check that area. If you still have doubts, have the system checked again by Tustin Toyota and express your concerns about it.

    Before doing that I would see whether the system blows cold air when the temperature is set on LO. If you don't get cold air, then there definitely is a problem.
     
  13. drmanny3

    drmanny3 Member

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    Yes when I first get in the car and start off the air conditioner is in the recirculate mode. I verified that the fans both work and blow in the correct direction. I did notice today that the weather was warm about 72. We got into the car and started off. The air conditioning unit would only blow warm air. Normally when you start adjusting the temperature of the air closer to the stated temperature the blower speed drops. In this particular situation that was not happening. It was gaining in speed. We drove about 5 miles and then stopped. When we got back into the car all of a sudden the cooler air was coming out of the outlets. Very strange. As long as we were moving the air stayed cool. As soon as we would come to a stop the air would warm up. That sounds like the fans must not be on? Perhaps the information for outside temp, inside temp is not being processed correctly. When I got home I went to eBay and found a used air/heater amplifier unit for about $40. I ordered it thinking that perhaps this is the ECU for the air conditioning system. I had read in a couple of posts where folks mentioned this device. What do you think? I think it is located next to the cabin filter assembly? I am going to try and swap to see if that makes a difference. Otherwise I am thinking that either something is blocked (unlikely) or my compressor is not longer able to perform well. Would you agree?
    Thanks,
    Manny
     
  14. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Seems reasonable to replace the A/C amplifier and see if that helps since the used part is inexpensive and this is easier than trying to remove the dashboard for access to the vents...

    The A/C amplifier is hiding behind the lower center instrument panel finish panel. This trim panel is mounted to the center floor hump, below the radio.
     
  15. drmanny3

    drmanny3 Member

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    Well good news and bad news. I was having a hard time locating the position of the AC Amplifier. Finally last night I saw that it was under the center of the console. So this morning in between the rain I got out and started to pull stuff apart. It has been so long since I took out the bottom center piece that I kind of forgot how. Anyway I put a switch for turning the phone on while driving and I did not allow for much slack. So I had to pull that out and eventually cut the wire. Then I could not see the ac amp. I suspected that it was at the bottom. There was a plastic air connector that seemed right in place. I was trying to get it out but the carpet was holding it in tightly. Finally I just cut a line in the carpet towards the armrest console. Still was not enough to pull out this air connector. Finally I started pulling the carpet on both sides of the car. Eventually I got the damn thing out. Then I realized that I did not need to do that. The AC Amp was just on the other side. There were two of the three screws holding it in place. I undid the two wire connectors and then undid the screws and pulled it out sideways. You can not tell if it is good or bad by looking at it. So I decided to put the used one in that I got from the junk yard (Parts Recycling Facility). Anyway hooked it back up and debated if I should put everything together or wait. Who knows they could have sent me a bad one. Well in order to drive the car I had to put the carpets back in as they were pulled away from the firewall on both sides. Of course before I could do that I had to put that air connector back in. Wouldn't you know it that was the hardest part of the job. I had to really work at it to get the connectors on both sides on properly and connect in the front. And of course I never needed to take the damn thing off in the first place. So that was the bad news! Once that was done I decided that everything would go back together so that I could drive the car. I started the car up and felt the familiar cold air coming out of the vents. But of course that is normal when it first starts. I then tried the heat and watched on the climate menu what was happening as I increased the temperature. For the first time everything seemed coordinated. I started to drive and put the heat on. For the first time in a long time (even before I thought I had an air conditioning problem) the heater put out warm air. As I took it up and up in temperature beyond 86 degrees it goes into high and the heater was really putting out the heat. As I took it down in temperature the fan slowed down and the temperature began to cool till I hit the 65 degrees and it goes into low. So I think this was the issue. The AC Amp must process all the information from the sensors and then send signals to the compressor and the radiator fans etcetera. I am so pleased with my self. Especially since the part cost me $40 shipped to my house and it worked. Go figure. I must thank all who have discussed their issues relating to air conditioning as I tried to read them all.

    Manny
     
  16. drmanny3

    drmanny3 Member

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    I tried to check to see if there were any error codes. I have an Autoenginuity unit that I have used on the NSX. I tried to read error messages on the Prius. But I could never properly connect. I wonder if it even works on Prius. Anyone out there try using the older Autoenginuity unit?
    Manny
     
  17. drmanny3

    drmanny3 Member

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    I ended up reading a p1150 error code that deals with the a/f ..... This could have been triggered when I changed out the water pump and had to refill the radiator. On another note, the air conditioner continued to work intermittently. I took it back to Toyota of Tustin and had them do a diagnostic. They came back and said that the compressor was no longer working properly. When cold it would work but as it go hot it would not perform properly. This kind of supports what I had feared before. So I decided to go ahead and have the compressor and dryer replaced. Toyota was kind enough to help with some of the costs. We have after all purchased 4 new Toyota and Lexus vehicles. Never the less it is still expensive to replace the compressor. The bill to me will be about $1300. I guess I could go out and buy a new one for $600 and the dryer for $70 and then do the install. I would have to expel the Freon to the atmosphere which is not the right thing to do. Then I would have to make sure I got it back to a Toyota dealer or someone who would use the correct oil and then add the Freon. I might save $400. But this time I think I will go with Toyota and have the peace of mind that they did it correctly. So in retrospect. I have noticed that the air conditioner has not performed as well over the last few months. It then began blowing warm air or air that had a lot of moisture. So I looked for something wrong. There were some bubbles in the sight glass but not too many. I had it filled by Toyota. They put a dye in to see if they could spot any leaks. I could hear the compressor from inside the car. It was loud enough that it was evident even while listening to the radio. Outside the car it was really loud. I had never recalled hearing it before. So perhaps that was the real indicator. When I put my hand down on the radiator fan shroud I could feel vibration which made me think it might be the fans. But upon further thought I also really felt the vibration when my hand would touch the compressor line that comes up from compressor. That in retrospect is the give away. The loud noise is probably a bearing or other item inside the compressor. When I get the car back this afternoon I will again listen to see if the compressor makes much noise and report back here.
    Manny
     
  18. drmanny3

    drmanny3 Member

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    Well I have had the car now for a couple of days. The air conditioner works as it should. The loud noise that was coming from the compressor is not gone. I can hear a hum when I stand outside next to the hood. So apparently that loud noise was a key indicator that the compressor was not working properly. We have had weather in the low 90s and the air comes on and cools pretty well. It cost me some money but I feel much better knowing that it is ok. If we sell the car I can feel comfortable knowing that everything is running as it should.
    Manny
     
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