al-Zarqawi Terminated!

malorn · Jun 8, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bob Allen @ Jun 8 2006, 02:18 PM) [snapback]268137[/snapback]</div>

Saddam was a bad guy, for sure. So are lot's of other dictators (many of whom were either put in power or retained power via US assistance). The issue here isn't "bad boys and good boys"...my issue, anyway, is that WE started this invasion of Iraq. Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11 and evidence suggests that Bush, Inc. knew that. Bush and Rumsfeld were planning this war before 9/11 for reasons no one in the administration is saying, leaving us to conejecture, conspiriacy theories, etc. etc. So, I get back to my original statement: Rumsfeld is an archtect of an unjust war on an innocent people. The dead in Iraq following that invasion can be laid squarely at his feet. In another time and under different circumstances, this administration would be tried as war criminals. The fact that they are OUR leaders blinds us to what this Iraq war looks like to those who are wearing red white and blue goggles.
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Did the United States ever declare war on the Iraqi people? I thought the reason was regime change in Iraq, and having talked with half a dozen veterans of Iraq the vast majority of Iraqi citizens are very glad that Saddam is out of power. Tried as war criminals by who? do you think more "innocent" civilians were killed during the invasion or were murdered by Saddam and co over even the last five years of his reign?

dbermanmd · Jun 8, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ Jun 8 2006, 02:11 PM) [snapback]268072[/snapback]</div>

Call me cynical, but I suspect that some money changed hands here
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Telling how libs can not even celebrate this huge event. Always looking to snatch darkness and defeat from the jaws of victory. Can't wait to see what they say when we get OBL.

And if money did change hands - SO WHAT? In fact, you might be aware there was a $25,000,000.00US reward for his scalp - no??

And do you want to comment about the child that was killed? Was that our fault - or - perhaps - the fault of that childs parent for allowing the child to come within the blast radius of two 500lb AMERICAN MADE bombs - I mean, who in that part of the world would not know who Zarqawi was and that he was a walking bullseye?

I would not call you cynical by the way :blink: I dont think you are here.

Notice how we did not capture him - would not like the left and the ACLU to get their hands on him and make him their war hero. Capturing saddam was a mistake too - should have dropped a nade down that hole - although the left enjoys his continued breathing and the troubles he makes for all of us, I would have loved to see his mug shot like I saw Zarqawi's this am - like his two son's.

efusco · Jun 8, 2006

This lib DID comment on the 'event'. But I won't "celebrate" the fact of a death...those who don't experience death first hand every day might not understand that, but I won't.

But strategicly I applauded his death. I commented that the collateral damage was a necessary but unfortunate consequence.

Since the Cons didn't get the response you'd hoped for I was relabled as not a liberal!! Ha! Typical Conservative Bushite move. If you don't like the message change the target. Figures.

BTW, at least 3 liberals have replied in this thread and I now have done so 3 times. Your just not getting the response you expected b/c you're so blind to your own ways you don't understand or listen to what we have to say. No one, that I recall, on this forum has once expressed anything but absolute support for our troops abroad. No one has questioned that Al Quaida is bad. But we do question the "facts" as reported out of the White House based on the real facts that we are intelligent enough to see for ourselves based upon real evidence. And when you look at that the justification for being in Iraq just isn't there. So though I'll applaud the victories we achieve now it is only with the objective of correcting the errors we've made to get into the position that we're in now.

Mystery Squid · Jun 8, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Jun 8 2006, 03:53 PM) [snapback]268173[/snapback]</div>

This lib DID comment on the 'event'. But I won't "celebrate" the fact of a death...those who don't experience death first hand every day might not understand that, but I won't.

But strategicly I applauded his death. [/b]
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Spectacular spin!

This liberal tree hugger is happy to accept the collateral damage and civilian loss of life. Those people, without a doubt, knew or suspected what was going on in their neighborhood. I'm sad if innocents died, but the overall picture is what matters. As long as the primary goal was achieved I'm happy to accept collateral damage to the extent that it is necessary to achieve that goal.[/b]
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Hmm, sounds like some back-spin going on here... h34r:

dbermanmd · Jun 8, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Jun 8 2006, 03:53 PM) [snapback]268173[/snapback]</div>

This lib DID comment on the 'event'. But I won't "celebrate" the fact of a death...those who don't experience death first hand every day might not understand that, but I won't.

But strategicly I applauded his death. I commented that the collateral damage was a necessary but unfortunate consequence.

Since the Cons didn't get the response you'd hoped for I was relabled as not a liberal!! Ha! Typical Conservative Bushite move. If you don't like the message change the target. Figures.

BTW, at least 3 liberals have replied in this thread and I now have done so 3 times. Your just not getting the response you expected b/c you're so blind to your own ways you don't understand or listen to what we have to say. No one, that I recall, on this forum has once expressed anything but absolute support for our troops abroad. No one has questioned that Al Quaida is bad. But we do question the "facts" as reported out of the White House based on the real facts that we are intelligent enough to see for ourselves based upon real evidence. And when you look at that the justification for being in Iraq just isn't there. So though I'll applaud the victories we achieve now it is only with the objective of correcting the errors we've made to get into the position that we're in now.
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Sharing a similar profession, I also do not celebrate death -- in this case I rejoice. I remember Daile Pearl and Nick Berg whose throats he slit - not to mention all the others he slaughtered directly or indirectly. If ever there was a death to celebrate this is it.

I am not blind to your posts - thanks. I also think that if you do not support the mission, you can not honestly support the troops.

And we will disagree about the Iraq War and the War on Terror too. I see the facts and I agree with President Bush entirely - I wish the prior President was more proactive...

I celebrate Zarqawi's death - wishing it would have been more painful for him. I celebrate what this means to our efforts there. I honor the forces for their superb work in this effort.

efusco · Jun 8, 2006

Sharing a similar profession, I also do not celebrate death -- in this case I rejoice. I remember Daile Pearl and Nick Berg whose throats he slit - not to mention all the others he slaughtered directly or indirectly. If ever there was a death to celebrate this is it.[/b]
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Nick Berg's father was interviewed today by an enthusiastic liberal CNN reporter today on whether he got any satisfaction from Al Zar's death. His reply was "no" and it was clear that he was glad he was gone but would not celebrate death in any form. MS likes to try to take snippits of my quotes and claim I'm the one creating spin, but in this case I think it's clear that you are trying to spin my words into something they're not. I readily admit now and did every since it became clear (on the liberal news) that Zaq was a bad dude that he needed to go. The means was irrelevant to me...I'm glad he's gone, but the connotations of the word 'celebrate' just don't suit me.

I am not blind to your posts - thanks. I also think that if you do not support the mission, you can not honestly support the troops.[/b]
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I'm glad you're not blind to them, you simply choose to ignore them....that makes sense.
I can and do very honestly support our troops...your claim that I "can't honestly do so" is sort of one of those types of claims that if you don't agree with our president then you're not a "true patriot"...before you know it we're a communist or some crap like that. I absolutely support my troops. They're mostly kids doing what they're told, following orders, risking lives for nominal pay. That's what we want them to do and they depend upon our supporting their work. But I also support them by doing my job as a citizen and that is to make sure that I never send them in to do something they shouldn't do or to die for something they shouldn't have to die for. We are there now...that fact is foregone. We must do what it takes now to win the peace and to that end I support everything they're doing to achieve that. But I'll be damned if I'll ignore the fact that it was unncessesary to have any of our kids die there in the first place and I'm going to make darn sure that I do everything to repeat something like this in the future.

And we will disagree about the Iraq War and the War on Terror too. I see the facts and I agree with President Bush entirely - I wish the prior President was more proactive...[/b]
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Indeed you and I completely see this differently. If your 'super pres' is so smart and proactive what's he doing about N. Korea? What about the attrocities (the one's Saddam committed pale to) in Somolia? What about Saudi Arabia where all but one of the 9/11 terrorists came from...when's the last time our allies the Saudi gov't busted up a terror ring? Proactive my nice person.

I celebrate Zarqawi's death - wishing it would have been more painful for him. I celebrate what this means to our efforts there. I honor the forces for their superb work in this effort. [/b]
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I celebrate what it means to our efforts and I honor our forces as well....still won't celebrate death.

dbermanmd · Jun 8, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Jun 8 2006, 04:25 PM) [snapback]268203[/snapback]</div>

Nick Berg's father was interviewed today by an enthusiastic liberal CNN reporter today on whether he got any satisfaction from Al Zar's death. His reply was "no" and it was clear that he was glad he was gone but would not celebrate death in any form. MS likes to try to take snippits of my quotes and claim I'm the one creating spin, but in this case I think it's clear that you are trying to spin my words into something they're not. I readily admit now and did every since it became clear (on the liberal news) that Zaq was a bad dude that he needed to go. The means was irrelevant to me...I'm glad he's gone, but the connotations of the word 'celebrate' just don't suit me.
I'm glad you're not blind to them, you simply choose to ignore them....that makes sense.
I can and do very honestly support our troops...your claim that I "can't honestly do so" is sort of one of those types of claims that if you don't agree with our president then you're not a "true patriot"...before you know it we're a communist or some crap like that. I absolutely support my troops. They're mostly kids doing what they're told, following orders, risking lives for nominal pay. That's what we want them to do and they depend upon our supporting their work. But I also support them by doing my job as a citizen and that is to make sure that I never send them in to do something they shouldn't do or to die for something they shouldn't have to die for. We are there now...that fact is foregone. We must do what it takes now to win the peace and to that end I support everything they're doing to achieve that. But I'll be damned if I'll ignore the fact that it was unncessesary to have any of our kids die there in the first place and I'm going to make darn sure that I do everything to repeat something like this in the future.

Indeed you and I completely see this differently. If your 'super pres' is so smart and proactive what's he doing about N. Korea? What about the attrocities (the one's Saddam committed pale to) in Somolia? What about Saudi Arabia where all but one of the 9/11 terrorists came from...when's the last time our allies the Saudi gov't busted up a terror ring? Proactive my nice person.

I celebrate what it means to our efforts and I honor our forces as well....still won't celebrate death.
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Pres Bush is too busy cleaning up clintons messes - one at a time - north korea will have to wait. Somalia too - clinton running like a girl only set this up - that will have to wait too.

I know about Berg's dad - I empathise for him, I do not know how I would handle what he is going through. Whatever he wants is cool by me. I am glad his sons gruesome murder was avenged.

I dont mean to spin your words - i am sorry for that.

I would argue your role as a US citizen is to allow the President to make the decision whether or not to go to war since whoever that person is is probably much better informed than you regarding that momentous decision - that is not your decision to make

Have a nice day

malorn · Jun 8, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Jun 8 2006, 03:32 PM) [snapback]268207[/snapback]</div>

Pres Bush is too busy cleaning up clintons messes - one at a time - north korea will have to wait. Somalia too - clinton running like a girl only set this up - that will have to wait too.

I know about Berg's dad - I empathise for him, I do not know how I would handle what he is going through. Whatever he wants is cool by me. I am glad his sons gruesome murder was avenged.

I dont mean to spin your words - i am sorry for that.

I would argue your role as a US citizen is to allow the President to make the decision whether or not to go to war since whoever that person is is probably much better informed than you regarding that momentous decision - that is not your decision to make

Have a nice day
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Didn't you mean chasing girls?

Mystery Squid · Jun 8, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Jun 8 2006, 04:25 PM) [snapback]268203[/snapback]</div>

MS likes to try to take snippits of my quotes and claim I'm the one creating spin, but in this case I think it's clear that you are trying to spin my words into something they're not. I readily admit now and did every since it became clear (on the liberal news) that Zaq was a bad dude that he needed to go. The means was irrelevant to me...I'm glad he's gone, but the connotations of the word 'celebrate' just don't suit me.[/b]
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Oh, okay, "happy" vs. "celebrate", it's always semantics with you. You make such an audacious statement like, "This liberal tree hugger is happy to accept the collateral damage and civilian loss of life." which I even thought was a bit bold for you, then you go off and try to "re-arrange", manage, SPIN, your way out of it. Who the F**K is "happy" to accept civilian loss of life?

Not I, for one...

But I'll be damned if I'll ignore the fact that it was unncessesary to have any of our kids die there in the first place and I'm going to make darn sure that I do everything to repeat something like this in the future.[/b]
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Oh, it was a "fact" saddam was no threat...? As I've said before, neither was the Taliban and UBL on 9/10...

Indeed you and I completely see this differently. If your 'super pres' is so smart and proactive what's he doing about N. Korea? What about the attrocities (the one's Saddam committed pale to) in Somolia? [/b]
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Oh yeah, like the left wouldn't start screaming even louder if he chose to intervene in yet another country...

What about Saudi Arabia where all but one of the 9/11 terrorists came from...when's the last time our allies the Saudi gov't busted up a terror ring? Proactive my nice person.[/b]
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...and you're just regurgitating the trash michael moore presented in F9/11. Just because they were from SA suddenly means SA was somehow behind/involved the plot? C'mon... Where's the "proof" as you like to say? UBL wanted to ignite this huge war, and stocked the airplanes full of idiots that may have had no other tangible ties to SA other than they were born or lived there...

Wildkow · Jun 8, 2006

Oh look someone is a bit upset. . . Make sure the sound is on as the music is the best part.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8602483019158148765

Wildkow

efusco · Jun 8, 2006

OK MS, "happy" is probably a bad word to use as well. Maybe "satisfied", "willing to accept", there is probably a better choice of words. And yes, semantics are VERY important as they define our position in a clear an concise way instead of allowing for subjectiveness that allows folks' opinions to be lumped together.

I would not scream a bit if we made an effective effort to intevene in Somolia and bring an end to the terrible things going on there. N. Korea, I agree, is much more complicated...but ignoring it isn't making the problem go away.

So is it your position that SA has no significant roll in terrorism? That they are not funding or sheltering terrorists?

And if you say that OBL and the Taliban were no threat on 9/10 then I'll take your word for it. But I, for one, never said that. But I'll admit we under estimated them...as did every republican including both Bush's. Clinton is no more guilty of that than anyone else...but he makes for a good fall guy.

Godiva · Jun 8, 2006

I'm sorry but when I heard the news all I could think was "So what? Another will take his place and it will be same old same old."

We're still there with no end in sight.

Bob Allen · Jun 8, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Jun 9 2006, 02:53 AM) [snapback]268110[/snapback]</div>

Your having a bad day aren't you Bob?

Wildkow :lol:
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Actually, no, I'm having a pretty good day. It's wonderfully encouraging to read actual debate about what's going on (mixed in with some drama, of course). I find most "news" depressing, not only because the content is always the same fear-mongerning banality of murder, car theft, auto accidents (throw in a plane crash here and there), but also because the news almost never elevates the discourse above an eighth grade level.

Just don't want to lose my anger at this government; the only way to keep sane in our Brave New World is to cling to the belief that we can change it.

fshagan · Jun 8, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Jun 8 2006, 05:49 PM) [snapback]268350[/snapback]</div>

I'm sorry but when I heard the news all I could think was "So what? Another will take his place and it will be same old same old."

We're still there with no end in sight.
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You could be right. But, the difference between killing al-Zarqawi and someone like Osama Bin Laden is that al-Zarqawi actually did the killing himself, whereas OBL is a leader of an organization that tries to kill us. So in this case, a man who could take a knife and saw through the throat of another man, on TV, while chanting "God is Great! God is Great!" has met an untimely end. That is a good thing, because there are plenty of other throats he would be glad to saw through.

Beyond the sense of justice people feel, there is hope that it demoralizes his followers or creates a vacuum of leadership in his "Al Queda in Iraq" organization. As various others former lieutenants jockey for power the organization may lose some of its focus. Being distracted by organizational politics is a bad thing when people are trying to kill you.

And there is hope that it encourages the Iraqi people, and enlistment in their security forces can rise as a result. Once the people get the feeling that they can win, their momentum will be hard for the enemies of individual rights to resist.

History teaches us that you never really know what incident is the pivot point until it happens. Then it looks so obvious with hindsight. This could be it. But it could also be something else entirely.

Sufferin' Prius Envy · Jun 9, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Jun 8 2006, 01:25 PM) [snapback]268203[/snapback]</div>

Nick Berg's father was interviewed today by an enthusiastic liberal CNN reporter today on whether he got any satisfaction from Al Zar's death. His reply was "no" and it was clear that he was glad he was gone but would not celebrate death in any form. MS likes to try to take snippits of my quotes and claim I'm the one creating spin, but in this case I think it's clear that you are trying to spin my words into something they're not. [/b]
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How is this for snippets?:

"Under Saddam Hussein, about 30,000 deaths a year. Under George Bush, about 60,000 deaths a year. I don't get it. Why is it better to have George Bush the king of Iraq rather than Saddam Hussein?"
- Michael Berg
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/06/08/...view/index.html

I actually agree with him!
He DOESN'T get it!

"People ask me why I focus on putting the blame for my son's tragic and atrocious end on the Bush administration. They ask: "Don't you blame the five men who killed him?" I have answered that I blame them no more or less than the Bush administration, but I am wrong: I am sure, knowing my son, that somewhere during their association with him these men became aware of what an extraordinary man my son was. I take comfort that when they did the awful thing they did, they weren't quite as in to it as they might have been. I am sure that they came to admire him.
I am sure that the one who wielded the knife felt Nick's breath on his hand and knew that he had a real human being there. I am sure that the others looked into my son's eyes and got at least a glimmer of what the rest of the world sees. And I am sure that these murderers, for just a brief moment, did not like what they were doing."
- Michael Berg
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1221644,00.html

Yeah, RIGHT! The people who committed the cruel and barbaric act . . . just for a brief moment . . . did not like what they were doing??? AS THEY WERE SLOWLY AND PAINFULLY CUTTING HIS HEAD OFF???? Give me a break . . . they were enjoying every painful slow slice and were rejoicing when they held his dripping detached head up for the money shot.

And then, out of remorse, they hung his head from a bridge. <_<
Michael Berg is delusional. Just absolutely whacked-out delusional if he thinks scum like that have even as much conscience as a Venus Flytrap. :angry:

And he probably thinks he has a good chance of becoming a US Congressman from Delaware. :lol:
http://bergforcongress.us/index.php

You are wrong efusco, I saw that interview too, and it was NOT â€œclear that he was glad he (al-Zarqawi) was gone.â€ Michael Berg said, â€œWell, my reaction is I'm sorry whenever any human being dies. Zarqawi is a human being. He has a family who are reacting just as my family reacted when Nick was killed, and I feel bad for that.â€ [same CNN link as above.]
Hardly a snippet which implies "glad-Zarqawi-was-gone."

Snippets: When taken out of context, improperly added to, or made to imply more than is truly there . . . THAT is spin.

P.S. efusco: Comparatively, you are hardly someone I would label as Ultra Liberal . . . at least in most of your writings here on PriusChat you come across as a center-left type if anything.

efusco · Jun 9, 2006

Agree, heard part of his CNN interview with Larry King or one of those guys and he is a bit of a wierdo. Refuses to acknowledge any feeling of satisfaction at all that Zar is gone.

I do agree that any human's death/murder deminishes us as a species, but he's over the top.

ghostofjk · Jun 9, 2006

I'm a liberal who's not only glad they got Zarqawi, but I would have paid for the privelege of severing his head with a chainsaw. (How's that for "turn the other cheek?) He had his own brand of Shock and Awe, employed entirely for political ends, and it sickened millions of us. In the end, though, it was probably counter-productive.

But this in no way diminishes the fact that it's not just "innocents" whose blood is on the hands of Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld. For the way they mis-conceived almost the whole operation, the blood of ill-equipped Americans sent in insufficient numbers to liberate Sunni Baathists who haven't exactly been showering them with flowers is on their hands, along with that of the Iraqi innocents/"collaterals".

Mystery Squid · Jun 9, 2006

'Nuf said...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ghostofjk @ Jun 9 2006, 04:39 AM) [snapback]268497[/snapback]</div>

I'm a liberal who's not only glad they got Zarqawi, but I would have paid for the privelege of severing his head with a chainsaw. (How's that for "turn the other cheek?) [/b]
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...funny, I'm not surprised at all...!

:lol:

dbermanmd · Jun 9, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Jun 9 2006, 09:55 AM) [snapback]268552[/snapback]</div>

'Nuf said...

...funny, I'm not surprised at all...!

:lol:
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Now that we all know that Zarqawi survived the initial bombing and died on a stretcher what do you think will happen? The libs and the ACLU and Jumpin Jihad Jack Murtha will claim the US Forces murdered him by neglect and call for a full investigation? The NY Times will preach on it??

My take - they should have slit his throat while he was awake. At least I know he suffered. My only disappointment yesterday was that his death was too kosher - unlike all the innocents he slaughtered. My belief that God works in not so mysterious ways is reconfirmed.

I feel much better now.

And a job well done to all US Forces! Next...

Mystery Squid · Jun 9, 2006

Here's a great hypocrisy exposed against the ardent leftists, you know, the ones that are screaming killing him won't matter, he'll only be replaced by another, revenge, blah, blah, blah...

YET,

these are the pretty much the same people who scream Iraq was unjust, and we should be focusing our efforts on Bin Laden. Hmmm, what's wrong with this picture...

al-Zarqawi Terminated!

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