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AMP and Charging Question

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-2022)' started by Arctic_White, Jul 29, 2019.

  1. Arctic_White

    Arctic_White Member

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    Hi all,

    I'm sorry of this has already been answered, but I'd appreciate it if someone can help me answer this question:

    We currently have a 220/240V outlet in our garage, which is rated at 50A (40A usable, as per the electrician).

    I'm in the middle of purchasing a 220V level 2 charger. There seems to be price discrepancy between 32A and 40A level 2 chargers. I'm leaning towards saving some money and buying the 32A, but I wanted to ask you guys whether our Prius Prime can handle 40A or not.

    If not, what's the most that our vehicles can handle Amp-wise?

    Lastly, would you recommend me purchasing the 40A to "future proof" myself or save the $50 and stick with 32A?

    Thank you!
     
  2. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    I thought the Prime was capped at 12 amps on both its charging voltages, so both of your ampacity choices above are plenty more than enough at the moment.

    No idea on the future-proofing ...

    =============
    PS. OK, I see the chart showing different rates (2020 Owner's Manual, p. 134):

    Capture.JPG :

    Different max rates, but same reduced rate of 8A when lowered in the settings menus.
     
    #2 fuzzy1, Jul 29, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2019
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  3. jb in NE

    jb in NE Senior Member

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    The Prime can handle a circuit that big, but the maximum it will draw is 16 amps.

    Neither 32A nor 40A is future proof, but for the $50 difference I'd get the 40A. That will max out the capability of the circuit and may be a good selling point when you sell the home.
     
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  4. illumiN8i

    illumiN8i Active Member

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    I would just get the cheapest level 2 charger that fits your outlet and upgrade later if you get a different car that can charge at a higher amperage. Since the Prime is only 16A max, higher amperage chargers won't make it charge any faster.
     
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  5. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    FYI, I bought mine from the States. Even with the exchange rate, it was cheaper than what was available locally. (Mine's a ClipperCreek LCS20P... so I bought a 20A one since the Prime only maxes at 16A even though my outlet is a 50A rated like yours).

    It's up to you . I debated that too but I figured in the time I own the Prime, maybe prices will come down as more people buy EVSE. Also, in my situation, I may move and the new place may not have the same receptacle as my current place so I would've bought a higher powered one for no reason. (most common receptacle is the 14-20R or 14-50R.. but mine is a 6-50R).

    If you're gonna be staying your current place for a while (lie 20-30 years), then go ahead and future proof. That way, if you end up with 2 EVs (now we're really looking down the road), you can charge one up then charge the other and have both ready by morning with a faster charger.
     
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  6. Arctic_White

    Arctic_White Member

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    Believe it or not, my garage actually has THREE 220v outlets (all rated at 50 Amps each). All are the 14-50 variety. Only thing I'm missing is actually the charger.

    Will the stock charger charge at 16 amps if it's plugged into 220v outlet?
     
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  7. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Wow! Clippercreek does make a dual-head charger but that's really expensive and only needed if you already have two BEVs.

    Apparently, yes. Here's a thread on it. You just have to make an adapter (so you're not modifying the stock cable in any way, you're just making an adapter for the stock cable to plug into and then plug that whole setup into your 14-50)

    Using the Primes 120v Charger at 240 Volts, Cost $20 !!! | PriusChat
     
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  8. Arctic_White

    Arctic_White Member

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    Thank you for the link.

    I wonder if something like this would work: UNIVERSAL PLUG ANGLE S21-SP | Réno-Dépôt

    It's $51.99 plus tax and might be a better alternative.
     
  9. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    You co
    You could try. I would read that thread just to make sure everything is kosher (I'll admit, I didn't read it in its entirety - just the first few posts by Rob to see how it's done. There may have been updates or improvements since the posts on the first page)
     
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  10. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Since an outlet is already in place, I'd lean towards getting a 16amp EVSE for the Prime. The price difference is greater than $50. The EVSE that comes with a Tesla is already Level 2, and there are adapters available if your outlet doesn't work with the ones supplied with the car. Unless you are planning on getting a non-Tesla in the near future, I say save the money.
    They are actually separate circuits? Guess the previous owner had an awesome workshop.

    Technically, the stock EVSE only draws 12amps, but does work with the higher voltage. Charging will be much faster than Level 1, but a little slower than if it done at 16amps
     
  11. Arctic_White

    Arctic_White Member

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    Yes, all three are separate circuits. Well, one is for the stove in kitchen BUT we don't have an electric stove (we have a gas one). So technically, I can plug in 3 BEV and charge them all at the same time. LOL.

    BTW, I'm the original owner. I had asked my developer to install a 220V outlet for future electric vehicle purchase.

    Last weekend, I had an electrician come by to do some electrical work. I asked him how much he will charge to install a dedicated 120V (20A) and a 220V (50A) and he gave me an excellent price as he was already at my place.

    He then said that the source to the kitchen 220V electrical outlet is near the panel and there was a metal plate on it. I asked him how much he will charge to put an extra 220V outlet and he said $40. I said go ahead with it. If anything, it will increase the value when it's time to sell.
     
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i would go rob's route for 20 bucks, it seems to be working out well
     
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  13. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Purely on price, yes, but there is a convenience factor to having a dedicated home EVSE that only needs to be plugged into the car and hung back on the wall.
     
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  14. Rob43

    Rob43 Senior Member

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    Yep, build your own for roughly ~$20 dollars....

    If you're not comfortable with building, I can make you one.

    Your charging time will be roughly ~2:25 to ~2:28 depending on temperature.



    Rob43
     
  15. jb in NE

    jb in NE Senior Member

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    That may involve a lot of money to upgrade. For the $50 difference, you can be at the upgrade.
     
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  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    $50 is a small amount for an upgrade, if the 32A wasn't already an upgrade over the max the Prime could use. 16A to 32A is nearly $200.

    Since we are considering future needs, a fair question is what had become of the Prime if/when this plug in needing a higher amp charger arrives. It could still be part of the household fleet at the time. Then a second EVSE is going to be needed.
     
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  17. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    That’s a good point. Future cars may come with a dual 120/240V cable like the 2nd Gen LEAF.
     
  18. PT Guy

    PT Guy Senior Member

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    Arctic, just a couple of details---

    The charger is built inside the car. The charging station is what you're referring to, also called an EVSE. It has a smart controller that communicates with the car's charger and supplies the amperage needed at each stage of charge. The Prime charger will ask for a max of 16 amps on the 240 volt system, then taper off later. (you have 240 volts, not 220.)

    Why buy the Level 2 EVSE? (240 volt unit.) It doesn't do a better job than the 120 volt unit supplied with the car, it just does it faster. Even at Canadian gasoline prices, it's hard to ever pay off the added cost. On the highway we get about 60 mpg after the battery is depleted. You're on your own to figure your kilometers per liter.

    Some are using the original Toyota power cord with 240 volt power. It seems to work well. A plug adapter (pig tail) is needed to adapt from the original NEMA 5-15 plug to whatever is needed on the 240 volt receptacle. Rob43, above, will make one for you for US$49.
     
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  19. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Or Tesla since the, I want to say beginning, but don't know what the original Roadster had.
    @Arctic_White has the advantage that the wiring and outlets are already in place. If a second EVSE is wanted for convenience, the additional cost for a Level 2 that meets the Prime's needs isn't much over a Level 1. It might even be cheaper than Toyota OEM.
     
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  20. Arctic_White

    Arctic_White Member

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    Interesting points and I appreciate you pointing them out.

    To respond, my preference would be to use EV mode all the time. At 15 KWH/100 kms (on the high-end), and the cost of electricity at $0.15 KW (again on the high end) equals $2.25 cost per 100 kms. Prius Prime is rated at 4.3 L/100 kms. Gas is just over a buck a litre, so that costs me $4.30 per 100 kms. Electricity is, by far, cheaper than gasoline at this point. So much so that my "break-even" point is ~25K electric kms.

    Thinking along these lines, how often will I be taking advantage of 2x the speed of the Level 2 charger? Likely very rarely. So the payoff time increases dramatically.

    Great points.
     
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