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An Example of Why I think Scientific Consensus Can Be BS

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by mojo, Oct 25, 2013.

  1. mojo

    mojo Senior Member

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    I dont believe anything that experts say just because they are experts.

    This may be similar to how the scientific community once had a consensus that menopausal hormone treatment therapy caused heart attack and stroke and abolished its use a decade ago.
    A few years ago the paradigm flipped when they realized they misinterpreted the study because of the preponderance of elderly women in the study were prone to heart attack and stroke.
    It turns out that younger women are actually protected by HRT .

    Now we may see another monumental paradigm shift regarding (healthy types of )fat in the diet vs sugar .


    Eating fat is good for you: Doctors change their minds after 40 years | Health | News | Daily Express


    "A Journal of the American Medical Association study recently revealed that a “low fat” diet showed the greatest drop in energy expenditure and increased insulin resistance – which is a precursor to diabetes – compared with a low carbohydrate and low glycaemic index (GI) diet.
    Dr Malhotra refers to the United States, where obesity has rocketed despite the percentage of calorie consumption from fat falling from 40 per cent to 30 per cent in the past 30 years. One reason is that the food industry “compensated by replacing saturated fat with added sugar”."
     
  2. mojo

    mojo Senior Member

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  3. mojo

    mojo Senior Member

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    Then contemplate that Arrhenius the father of global warming theory was a father of eugenics theory.
    Was he correct or was he a racist ?
    He thought global warming would be beneficial .
     
  4. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Mojo you just cautioned against listening to experts by quoting a doctor that likely is a quack, but is published by the daily express. You are listening to a fake expert.

    These guys are out to sell books or diets. Nutrition research has not changed much, but we do have more obesity and fewer heart attacks. I don't think there has ever been a scientific consensus on diet, only government recommendations.

    My diet and medicine is much better than my grandfather's diet and doctors. He did much more exercise though.
     
  5. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Micheal Crichton's essay also suggests that science is our only hope for the future. It doesn't bother me that Crichton and I define the details of science differently. I have plenty of disagreements on details with people doing research very closely related to mine.

    But maybe we should be careful about quoting from that site, as it specifically says we should not (!)Would want mojo or PC to run afoul of lawyers. If you want to know MC's thoughts, you are supposed to buy his books :)
     
  6. mojo

    mojo Senior Member

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    Wow, everyone needs to watch this video.
    Not just because it proves my point, but because your life is at stake.
    Cholesterol is not the villain, sugar is.

     
  7. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Science, empiricism, has a rigid methodology but it is self-correcting:
    • Christian Scientist
    • Jehovah Witness
    • Amish
    • Mennonite
    • "Snake Handling" sects
    There are dogmatic groups and religions that reject modern medicine and pretty much any empirical science. For example, I remember some Saudi students visiting us over Thanksgiving told us "Pork has unmentionable diseases."

    Bob Wilson
     
  8. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    You should, because your alternative is worse. You believe idiots and quacks because they say what you want to hear.

    At least with experts there is a good chance they are at least partly correct.
     
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  9. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney EditProfOptInfoCustomUser Title

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    Or something else. There are significant numbers of proponents of evidence-based medicine who view high cholesterol almost entirely as a symptom and think that attempts to manage it directly are misguided.
     
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  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    This highlights an important aspect of emiricism:
    • hypothesis - individual or small number(s), testing can only disprove
    • theory - a collection of tested hypothesis that so far have yet to be disproved
    • law - a body of observations that provides a model, does not have to explain why
    So what we have is:
    Source: Scientific Hypothesis, Theory, Law Definitions

    Science is constantly undergoing updates and corrections. So a medicine is released after FDA trials is later withdrawn when in a larger population provides more observations. That is how it works. A consensus exists until better observations provide an alternate. The earlier observations remain intact but now part of larger picture.

    Bob Wilson
     
  11. mojo

    mojo Senior Member

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    Actually my cholesterol is normal and I have no interest in wanting to hear that the paradigm is shifting.
    As well,being a leftist, I have no political inclination affecting my skepticism of global warming.
    Im just fascinated by how bullshit can fool society.

     
  12. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    One of the key elements of the scientific method is observation, repeatable observations. So even climate deniers can change their point of view when calibration of the satellite data corrects the observations.
    Well let's see, you 'incited' materials from the 2012 Zdanowicz paper and claimed it was part of the 2013 Miller paper. Worse, you read neither paper yet claimed some 'incites':
    That is not 'skepticism' but a blatant falsehood. "No Apology: Believe in America" by Mitt Romney more accurately describes your 'politics.' Combined with personal attacks on others and anonymity, well you've pretty well fit the pattern of a young, Ayn Rand follower immersed in right-wing propaganda sources. But here is your real motivation:
    It is the mission, the role, and the goal of a troll to 'incite' . . . to provide the "bullshit." When combined with unusual sloth, a troll provides an exercise to sharpen our ability to "whack 'em with a clue-by-four." What a pathetic, helpless, existence.

    Bob Wilson
     
  13. mojo

    mojo Senior Member

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    You are delusional.
    I made no such claim.
     
  14. mojo

    mojo Senior Member

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    You are such an idiot I just have to laugh.
     
  15. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    So predictable:
    [​IMG]

    Bob Wilson
     
  16. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    Ah, but which is the bullshit, which is the truth, and how do we know the difference? That's where the nifty little concept called science comes in.
     
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