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An interesting comparison between Toyota vs. Honda reliability

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by Georgina Rudkus, Feb 4, 2023.

  1. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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  2. Todd Bonzalez

    Todd Bonzalez Active Member

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    I haven't watched the video yet but based on my ownership of four Honda's (two Civics, one FR-V, and one Accord) - they rust like crazy, they're too light and tinny (yeah I know light = fuel economy), the suspension just can't cope with bad roads. I'll think of a few more things before the video's finished... ;)
     
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i generally don't do videos, what's the gist?

    is it facts and data on reliably getting you from a to b over a certain number of miles/years?
    or is it just gibberish like consumer reports?

    not that it matters to me, honda has never made a product i have been interested in
     
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  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    their generators look okay
     
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  5. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    I'm not going to watch a video either if the person posting isn't explaining why it's worth seeing... It's a waste of time. And speaking of negligence:

    How long a car lasts has more to do with the owner than the vehicle... I got way too many Prius owners I help who are getting close to 200K miles and starting to burn a quart or two of oil between oil changes and there's nothing I can say or do to get the owner to check their oil or even stop by to have me check it for them and show them how. Then they call me when they're at less than 2 quarts low and red triangle keeps blinking during turns or hard braking. I tell them again and again that maintaining your oil level is just as important as wearing a seat belt, making sure you don't run out of gas, having insurance & registration & license up to date. So many people fail at the easiest parts of owning a car and then blame it on the car being unreliable when in truth it's not the car, it's them.
     
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  6. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    meh...

    Fake News.
     
  7. hkmb

    hkmb Senior Member

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    What's white and whizzes down the washing line at 50mph?

    Hondapants.
     
  8. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    34 years ago this month, I bought my (then-future) spouse a new Acura Integra, basically a fancied up Honda Civic, to replace her very troublesome older pre-owned Civic that was causing significant household stress from repeated breakdowns and commute difficulties. And laid down some rules on how it was to be maintained, different than the very tight budget model applied to the old one since before we met.

    It is still her daily driver. Aging, and certainly showing some wear, but still running well enough that she is unwilling to part with it. I now want it to die to force an upgrade to something with modern safety features, such as airbags and side impact protection. But it won't.

    The Honda Accord I bought a few years earlier, was kept 23 years until I turned it in for my first Prius.
     
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    that settles it then
     
  10. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    So the video compares a new Camry with an older generation Civic in an attempt to compare reliability between Honda and Toyota.

    Any issues so far?

    The video creator is somewhere up north in -20 C weather and is clearly a Scotty wannabe. He goes through a laundry list of issues. Each vehicle's problems over many generations - without much clarity as to what is important and what is not.

    A particularly annoying part of the video is when he goes and operates each switch and latch twice without any comment.

    For someone who knows these cars it is easy to spot the important items such as Honda's traditional transmission issues. He attempts to make a case Toyota is still simple while Honda has gone over the deep end with their more recent 1.5 turbo engines. Not sure that is true either based on my experience with the turbo in a Crv.

    He doesn't discuss ride, handling, safety systems, interior quality, resale value or other important ownership metrics.

    Of course, he's not discussing hybrids at all so relevance to this forum is minimal. Based on my own experience in the twenty year timeframe he is covering, Honda did have some recurring issues in the early 2000s with transmissions. Toyota has had problems with oil burning. If I had to buy a $3000 2002 vehicle it would probably be a Camry.

    Next he is comparing a Camry to a Mercedes.
     
    #10 rjparker, Feb 7, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2023
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  11. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    13:17 I was waiting for that Takata especially on my 2002 civic ex, it never seems to end. And the honda A B C D service schedule both on the 02 civic and the 06 civic hybrid was $400 for the D service alone. ymmv per dealer.
    I cringed in the Toyota waiting room during service on our 14 PiP hearing the service writers explain to other customers what their cars needed while in the dealers shop.

    I'm no stranger to service related issues with cars, don't matter whose car it is. It's just easier for me / my money to know what work is getting done and what work is passed over.

    Not the worst car video I've watched for sure.
     
  12. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Might be some fractured memory? Honda Maintenance Minder only has A and B codes, for oil change without/with filter change respectively. B also includes a litany of inspections.

    Besides A and B codes, there's numeric sub-codes 1 through 5. I'd guess the D you mention (for $400) was in fact sub-code 4, which was replacement of spark plugs and valve clearance inspection. It doesn't come up that often, is warranted, and for what's involved and the parts, $400 seems reasonable.

    Our last car was an 06 Civic Hybrid, and I DIY'd that spark plug and valve clearance. It was complicated (similar to 3rd gen Prius) by the need to remove windshield cowl. Also, there was a electrical conduit running over the valve cover, and I found in practice getting that thing out of the way was involved.
     

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    #12 Mendel Leisk, Feb 8, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2023
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  13. John321

    John321 Senior Member

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    Mr. Mendel I have a question. I like to work on cars - in fact enjoy it quite a bit and take care of all the vehicle maintenance and repairs for our vehicles.

    My question is - how important do you think checking the valve clearance is? I've always been on the fence about this service.

    All the vehicles I ever owned had this as a maintenance entry but honestly the last time I checked valve clearance was when I was in my 20's on my 1960's something Dodge Coronet
     
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  14. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Not to mention that there are 8 spark plugs instead of 4 in the 4 cylinder engine. LOL Yeah, on my 08 HCH, I ended up buying OEM iridium spark plugs online (much cheaper than the dealer's quoted price) and had them installed by a dealer.

    The initial quote by the dealer including the parts was close to $500. I paid $66.96 for 8 of NGK (4458) ILFR6J-11K Laser Iridium Spark Plug $8.37x8=$66.96. And paid the change spark plug $98.00 plus adjust valve $12.16 at a dealer. Total cost: $177.12 instead of the initially quoted $500.
     
  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i'm glad someone wasted their time watching the video so i didn't have to
     
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  16. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    It depends a lot on the valve tappet style.

    Hondas have screw-and-lock-nut adjusters, they do tend to drift out of adjustment, and once-in-a-long-while adjustment will make a noticeable improvement. It's relatively easy to do; you just pry off the valve cover and there you are. You then need to get a wrench on the end of the driveshaft (access through wheel well) and manually crank the engine till certain marks on the cam shaft sprockets align. To know how to do that, I'd always buy the Honda Shop Manual (for about $100, through Helm Inc IIRC), and it paid for itself with a single valve adjustment.

    We started with an 81 Civic. I didn't touch the valve clearance on that, but then it was Accords (an 83, 86 and 91), and with them I learned how to check the valves, and got quite comfortable with the process. Access on those was very easy; step one was removing the valve cover, lol. It would take 2-3 hours at most. With our 06 Civic the raked windshield and cable routing complicated things, and the Shop Manual wasn't much help with the access involved, so it was a learning curve for me.

    Second gen Prius is a different story though, with shim adjusters: very involved, I think you have to lift off the cam shafts. And adjustment involves swapping in different shim thickness. It's something I don''t think gets done very often. I believe the system is inherently more stable too, so adjustment is rarely warranted, or by the time it is the car is really old, hardly worth the effort/expense.


    Third gen and fourth gen Prius have a hydraulic adjusted system, don't need any intervention, unless something fails/clogs I guess.
     
    #16 Mendel Leisk, Feb 8, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2023
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  17. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    did you miss this by chance while thinking of a fractured memory
    Not even from the same planet as the minder A B codes you seem to remember, other than the A and B codes to the A B C D maintenance schedule.
    All A service appointments were free, since we purchased the lifetime free oil change package (another story in itself ).. B and C scheduled services were variable in cost depending on what service(s) got added to the normal scheduled paid for services.
    been drinking unsweetened cool aid lately?

    Now you've got another part to the rest of the story.
     
    #17 vvillovv, Feb 8, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2023
  18. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Seems we are on the same planet although some must love to argue. The Honda Maintenance Minder on our 2017 was much the same as Mendel's 2006. An A or B with a second digit as a numeric code.

    For example a B4 is oil and filter change along with spark plugs and valve clearances. Not much difference.

    D48CAC72-57C7-41B5-B675-135093270C28.jpeg
     
  19. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    agreed. some just like to argue and or misdirect. I'm glad you seem to think Mendal has a point about the maintenance minder. Which was not what I was or am now referring to for the third time.
    If you think my original comment on the cost of scheduled maintenance is off that would be a welcome discussion.
    And thanks for your opinion on the honda maintenance minder system. great stuff.
     
  20. Todd Bonzalez

    Todd Bonzalez Active Member

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    :LOL: Not enough screeching and arm-waving!

    It's a TikTok ASMR thing. Believe or not some people seek that stuff out :ROFLMAO:

    car asmr|TikTok Search