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Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by austingreen, Sep 15, 2015.

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  1. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    That has absolutely nothing to do with the topic mainstream deliverables. Those are projects outside of high-volume production intent. In other words, the spin of portraying a long-term effort as something other than that is wasting our time.

    We have Tesla & Nissan pursuing high-volume project. You telling us the other 4 have the same intent? Where did you get that information?
     
    #41 john1701a, Sep 28, 2015
  2. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Read my OP again. There is no mention of mainstream. If you want to start a Fuel cells at 3000/year world wide is mainstream but model x and s are not, go ahead. But I consider Tesla will be doing hundreds of thosands of bevs a year, which is high volume for a new car company IMHO. These other 5 companies are trying to expand that.

    I don't know what you are doing on this thread. You are wasting my time with this pretend high volume future (mirai) but BEVs as a dead end. That just doesn't sound right.



    I think they all are making a good faith investment. Do you have other information?
     
    #42 austingreen, Sep 28, 2015
  3. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    That reinforces exactly what I was saying. Toyota clearly states intent. It gets disregarded. The other automakers make vague statements. Those get assumed as solid promises.

    In other words, since when is "good faith" anything to bank on?

    We've seen that mistake playout again and again and again...
     
    #43 john1701a, Sep 28, 2015
  4. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    Troy, could you give us a review of your FCV ownership so far?

    Thx
     
    #44 fotomoto, Sep 28, 2015
  5. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Not quite sure what you are talking about here. Toyota said they fuel cells would take over, but when it came to numbers its, 5700 in 2015-2017 (average less than 2000/year) then 3000/year until a new fuel cell vehicle is mass production. Maybe they will be maystream in 100 years according to toyota's official pr. That is rather vague thing to bet on. Maybe in 2020 after the olumpic they will give up, or maybe they will make "tens of thousands a year". No car company really has delivered on fuel cell promises, but some take the mass production some time, maybe 10 years out on faith.

    I don't assume that all the makers - tesla, nissan, chevy, ford, porsche, and audi will all make tens of thousands of 200+ mile (or 300+ km) bevs a year, but they are all trying. Tesla will for sure as they are doing it already. That type of competition should ensure battery r&d and a good variety of vehicles. We have a compact in the bolt, a midsize sports sedan in the model 3, a luxury sports sedans in the porsche and model S, SUVs in the model X and audi. Ford looks like the most likely to drop out, but maybe even Toyota will follow in the space after it is more fully established.

    We've seen big car companies and CARB pretend BEVs won't have a market before, but the market is there, just a little slower than plug-in advocates hoped for. There have been 1 M plug-ins sold world wide.

    The 100 mile (imev type) idea did not find traction. 200+ mile bevs seem to be what customers are asking for. If governments scale back cafe, that may slow adoption, but puthing out these plug-ins is likely the cheapest way to reduce oil use and comply with us cafe and european co2 regulations.[/quote][/QUOTE]
     
    #45 austingreen, Sep 28, 2015
  6. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Toyota states they are going to make 3000 FCEVs that didn't meet US safety regulations, and needed a waiver. They haven't stated what their exact goals are after that. Unless there is a major market or political change, it can be taken on faith they will continue with FCEVs.

    Most, maybe all, of the makers planning a 150/200 mile BEV already have a short range one available in the US market, or they will soon. They aren't just making statements about selling a BEV, they actually are doing so now.
     
    #46 Trollbait, Sep 28, 2015
    austingreen likes this.
  7. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    I expect the Model 3 to be very much like a smaller and more economical Model S. I'm certainly interested. I don't need 0-60 in under 10 seconds. I most certainly hope the ordinary car buyer (which is actually a pickup truck buyer) is not that interested initially. Supply and demand can make for an highly sought after Model 3.
     
    #47 FL_Prius_Driver, Sep 28, 2015
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