"Annual PEV fee"

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by knightofdight, Feb 4, 2018.

  1. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Indiana is one of the few states that tax Prii-type hybrids so you should blame that on your own elected officials. We got it reversed in Va.

    Toyota and other manufacturers generally recommend against singling out hybrids for more tax - it's plain and simple prejudice against hybrids (some of which eg; Highlander are lower MPG). Plug-ins are a different story as that is an alternate fuel, so auto cos. generally agree a modest added fee for BEV is fair approach. Prime is middle ground somewhere.

    Tennessee is a good egg for Prii-owner/activists like me because they thought it through and decided not to tax hybrids per se. I know I wrote to their legislative guy at the time, and he wrote back to me.
     
  2. padroo

    padroo Senior Member

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    Our then govenor Mike Pence signed it into law I believe.
     
  3. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    ...figures...yes we had to wait for new (Dem) Gov to fix it...not to be political but generally it is Repub govs that like to bash hybrids with an extra tax.
     
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  4. Since2002

    Since2002 Senior Lurker

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    Putting a guilt trip on electric car owners doesn't work because the existing system in those states is inherently unfair already. It's nothing new that cars that get higher mpg pay less gas tax than a similar class of car with lower mpg. For that matter people who drive the speed limit pay less gas tax for the same miles driven than people who speed. People who keep their tires inflated pay less gas tax. No need for any of those people to feel guilty about not paying their fair share, and no need for anyone to feel guilty about the fact that not spewing pollutants into the air means you avoid gas tax. Especially since electric cars for the most part are lighter weight and typically drive fewer miles, although that will eventually change. The current tax system is out of date and should be replaced by one based on vehicle weight and miles driven. Charging a flat fee to electric car owners isn't fair because someone who drives their EV a few dozen miles a week pays the same fee as someone who drives theirs a few hundred miles a week.

    Better and more equitable revenue systems need to be put in place. In the meantime my heart isn't broken that for the moment Chevy Tahoes are paying for road maintenance but Nissan Leafs aren't.
     
  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    No need for conspiracy when greed and cowardice will suffice.

    The states' revenue from gas taxes have been dropping steadily as the fuel economy of the fleet has improved. To replace it, taxes need to increase some where. The fuel tax is the obvious and fairest choice, but most politicians wish to be the one to do that. So passing something on plug ins is easier since the owners generally have a small voice.

    Eventually, we will need some fair system of taxing BEVs for use of public roads. Right now, they are too small of a group of cars that taxing them could cause more harm than good in terms of adoption.

    A road built to handle multi-ton trucks experiences no damage from passenger cars aside for a little bit of wear off the top, which isn't a high ticket repair item, if it even is considered worth repairing. The under layers of road bed just shrug it off. Winters do more damage than cars. Yes, everyone should help with those costs, and fuel taxes are a fine way of doing so at this point.

    This goes back to cowardice in government. The federal fuel taxes in the US were last increased in the '80s, and did not contain a mechanism for increasing with time. So fuel taxes that may have covered such repairs no longer do so because of simple inflation. Throw in things like the new ICE Camry getting almost the same MPG as the previous hybrid model, and there is a big hole in the budget for infrastructure. Slapping the few plug ins with some fee won't fill it. It just lets the politicians look like they are addressing the issue without actually doing so.
     
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  6. MikeDee

    MikeDee Senior Member

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    Some states like California rob the gas tax money and use it for other purposes.
     
  7. padroo

    padroo Senior Member

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    Indiana also raised it's gas tax by 10 cents a gallon last year. They have let our infrastructure like bridges and roads deteriorate so bad

    they had to do something. When you enter Indiana the first road sign you see says. "ROAD ENDS".

    But on a positive note since we got our new governor the last two years they are fixing our roads.

    When I travel into Michigan from here about 30 miles they have bad roads, worse than Indiana.
     
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  8. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    Trump is talking about a 0.50 a gallon fed gas tax hike, let’s see how that goes
     
  9. padroo

    padroo Senior Member

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    Everything always gets passed on to the consumer. The consumer never wins, it's in the plan.
     
  10. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 'Orrible Oracle

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    Salt is tough on bridges, steel and concrete. There's some moves now, to reduce salt, simply cutting back, and/or using a blend of salt and something else, various adjuncts that reduce the salt but maintain effectiveness.
     
  11. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    While true on the face of things higher fuel costs can motivate the end of poor wasteful decisions, for example
    Higher fuel costs ...

    1. Remove some vehicles from the road (reduced traffic)
    2. Motivate people to buy more efficient vehicles
    3. Enforce local buying practices (amazons business model for example is not viable if fuel prices are unavoidably above $4 a gallon as you can only write off so much)
    4. Slow train freight becomes competitive making bulk shipments to local stores significantly less expensive than fast semi deliveries to individuals

    All of the above will just make us more efficient and make ignorant wasteful behaviors much more expensive.

    In the long run a good thing

    Also,
    Personally I have always believed the SUPPLY SIDE of crude should have a windfall tax that automatically comes and goes to keep the price of crude somewhat constant so we get lots of revenue during price plunges and the tax goes away when prices are high.

    This would also put a hidden tax into industry and farm that currently is fully exempt from all tax.

    It also would make crude costs less volitile and more predictable

    Even a very small windfall tax on the supply side would provide more revenue than very high taxes on road fuels due to the sheer volume difference
     
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  12. padroo

    padroo Senior Member

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    You are trying to apply logic to this, logic does not work anymore. lol
     
  13. pilotgrrl

    pilotgrrl Senior Member

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    Let's talk about Nebraska. They had rotomilled all of I-80, but never gotten around to reopening it. I don't miss driving that.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  14. prius4-me

    prius4-me Junior Member

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    Colorado has a $50 annual fee for any plug-in car. Supposedly $30 goes to the general fund and $20 to installing more public charging stations.
     
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  15. Oniki

    Oniki Active Member

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    This trumper argument of "fair share" is a bunch of hooey. I am not polluting; why am I not being recompensed fairly ?
     
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  16. Oniki

    Oniki Active Member

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    Whom do you think should pay ?
     
  17. padroo

    padroo Senior Member

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    I can see putting in infrastructure for electric cars, after a while with all these charging stations that you paid for some of that income should go to installing more charging stations. My guess would be all the profits will go in some rich guys pockets and I am an optimist.

    I just emailed my state senator with the same basic idea about using some of the money to build infrastructure.
     
    #37 padroo, Feb 7, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
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  18. Washingtonian

    Washingtonian Active Member

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    Sounds to me like you are whining. You are being recompensed, whether you think it is fair or not. Aren't you getting a few thousand dollars back in your taxes this year because you bought a Prime instead of a regular Prius? If my neighbor rides a bicycle to work, should he be "recompensed fairly"?
     
  19. chenderson2

    chenderson2 Member

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    The fees are for making up for not getting the tax on fuel when driving electric cars. I believe it sends the wrong message, since the government is trying so hard to get us to stop using gasoline.
    Hey, but the government is full of hypocrisy. Another example is them always asking us to save energy by using less, and then giving a reduced rate for using more.
     
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  20. wb9tyj

    wb9tyj 2017 Prius Prime Advanced

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    renewed tags in indiana for the prime, and it's the same as a liftback prius...$50.00...(not including all the BS excise taxes,local tax,reg fees...(450$ worth total)...I can say the roads are starting to get repaired but a looooong way to go yet...The winter just tears them up 3 steps forward ...4 steps backwards...as for paying my fair share...i do...but keep in mind, my prius prime does not rut up, tear up and bust up roads like the over grossed semis in this state...which tend to run loose around here, given the state shut down the majority of weigh stations just to save not paying DOT guys...penny wise pound foolish....and of course Indiana gives no quarter on buying a prime like other states do...Federal rebate and that's it...This is why we have property in NV and will ultimately stay there instead of running back and forth...beside weather much better in winter...
     
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