Another Battery Degradation Thread

One thing that concerns me just a bit, is the safety of the lithium battery in the PiP. The Boeing 787 had a number of lithium battery fires, and I'm not sure anyone has yet thoroughly identified and rectified the problem. A number of other products containing lithium batteries have also caught fire over the years. I think I'll buy a fire extinguisher for my car.

 

Hopefully you are jesting.

But in the case you aren't, then research what the different non-lithium chemicals inside a "lithium battery" do. Then what was in the dreamliner's batteries, and the BMS system they used (or lack thereof essentially).

And if you are still scared, then buy a fire retardant full body suit to drive around anything that has gasoline in it. I've heard that stuff catches fire explodes!!!!!!

 

All the same, it would be more reassuring if the cause of the Dreamliner battery fires had been found. As it stands, the cause is still officially "unknown" and the only measures implemented have been better fire protection.

You can't say it's nothing at all to be a bit concerned about.

 

And what fire protection are you planning for the 12 gallons of explosive liquid petrochemicals you are hauling around behind you?

 

In general terms, the particular chemicals used in the Dreamliner's Lithium battery lead to a higher energy density (kwh/pound) than the kind used in the PiP, but are known to be more prone to thermal runaway (the hotter they get, the faster they get hot). Which puts more responsibility on the Battery Management System, which on the Dreamliner was apparently a bit lacking. Weight is critical on an aircraft, but...

 

You should tell the FAA , because apparently they're still stumped.

 

Not stumped. They just use scientific terms that we already know you don't know or care about from other threads. To prove what went wrong, is impossible. They have a very good working theory.

But none of that applies to the PiP. The thermal coefficients for the PiP chemistry don't resemble the Boeing batteries at all. Spreading FUD does nothing useful. You still haven't answered why you are so worried to buy a fire extinguisher for the lithium battery in your car but not the petrol tank that accompanies it everywhere. Do you not keep your computer or cell phone near? Chances are they are lithium too. Even my fridge has a lithium battery in it.

 

Well actually the investigators found "wiring anomalies" on a transmitter that had its own internal Lithium Metal primary batteries as well as the one on an Ethiopian plane that had the same problem with a beacon. That caused a thermal runaway in the latest fire in Heathrow, not the battery that supplies the electrical system that had been reworked since the rash of fires in 2012/2013.

 

Sometimes a working theory is about as useful as a screen-door in a submarine. I think the official cause is still an unknown.

 

Fear
Uncertainty
Doubt

 

wow, what happened to the thread i left yesterday?

 

Well if it will make you feel any better they found NO evidence of a fire inside the battery case for the Boston and Japanese fires that led to the grounding. They did find evidence of a small 3 inch flame near an external connector in the Boston fire. But hey you know the press, a lithium is a lithium is a lithium battery and it was close to the battery box so its close enough to call it a Lithium battery fire.

 

however do we sleep at night?

 

Just remember these three things.

Fear
Uncertainty
Doubt

Sleep well...

 

and sheep!

 

Back on track... I've been working on a way to better convey data captures. It gets a bit involved, but the outcome should be a high-quality overlay with driving video:

1. Save the data log from the Torque App.
2. Convert the CSV file to Excel format.
3. Import that Excel file into Word using Mail-Merge.
4. Save that Word document in PDF format.
5. Convert the PDF to PNG images of each page.
6. Import those image files as an album into PowerPoint.
7. Export the PowerPoint presentation as MP4 video.
8. Combine that data video with the driving footage.

It's many steps, but they're just jobs you submit and wait for. The trade off is it will make the filming process itself quite a bit easier. The numbers presented will be much nicer on the end-product. No more vibration from having to actually use a camera for the data. Obviously, the raw values themselves will be available for further analysis too.

Long story short, we'll eventually have more info to help squash the FUD.

 

Here's the finished video...

Including data from the Torque App turned out great! It's very easy to see what's going on behind the scenes.

I'm really looking forward to capturing more driving situations and presenting them this way.