1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Answers from Tesla

Discussion in 'Other Cars' started by daniel, Mar 8, 2007.

Page 5 of 7
  1. tracysbeans

    tracysbeans Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    979
    0
    0
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Hey Darell I found something that would be good for you with your biking skills. :p

    For Darell

    Best of BOTH worlds and I think you have a rack on your Prius already to haul it B)

    That velomobile is cool B)
     
    #81 tracysbeans, Mar 16, 2007
  2. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    14,487
    1,518
    0
    Location:
    Spokane, WA
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    The Myers Motors NMG only has a 20-mile freeway range, and takes over 12 seconds to get up to freeway speed. They guess 30 miles range at surface-road speeds. But riding that thing at freeway speed seems really dangerous to me. And it costs over $25,000.

    BUT...

    I just talked to Sean at Grant's Pass EV about the Xebra PK LRX version. The LRX is (I gather) Sean's modification, giving the contraption more range and speed than the base model. He has a customer who got 39 miles under extreme driving conditions, and he's gotten 46 miles under less-punishing conditions. Its top speed is 40 or 45 mph, and he claims that acceleration off the line is better than most cars. Price is around $15K plus whatever options you want, plus delivery if you cannot pick it up there, plus licensing and taxes, plus... whatever. Waiting time is about two months.

    Thanks Tracy for putting me on to him!

    I'm going to ponder it for a while, but this may be the vehicle that gets me electric until the Obvio becomes available. At this moment, I like the Obvio more than the Tesla: Half the price, and you don't have to lean way back in the seat to drive it.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tracysbeans @ Mar 16 2007, 03:40 PM) [snapback]406994[/snapback]</div>
    It seems to me you're both advocating the same thing: for people to get into electric vehicles. Tracy has more information (???) about NEVs and CEVs, while Darell has more information about companies developing full-featured electric cars. But I'm sure Darell agrees with Tracey that people should buy NEVs and CEVs when those meet their needs, and I'm sure Tracy would like to see the big car companies introduce full-featured electric cars. Same goal. Same team. Different information specialties. (Plus Darell has whole pages of funny flashlights on his web page. :D )
     
    #82 daniel, Mar 16, 2007
  3. tracysbeans

    tracysbeans Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    979
    0
    0
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Mar 16 2007, 08:11 PM) [snapback]407060[/snapback]</div>
    Daniel, Yeah that's true. I just like to give Darell a hard time cause he sometimes give me a hard time. It's all good and he did say I would be welcome with my little Gem at any of the EV events I go to. I would definatly like to start going to some of them. I will hold my head up high and be proud of where I stand electric wise. There are even some cool cheaper home brew electrics at some of those events. I know one guy that got a doner car and all he has spent on getting it going was on the parts he needed. The rest was just his time. I think it came out to costing less than $3K when he was all done with it. Not the prettiest EV I have seen but he got it on the road and that's all that matters! B)
     
    #83 tracysbeans, Mar 16, 2007
  4. tracysbeans

    tracysbeans Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    979
    0
    0
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Mar 16 2007, 08:11 PM) [snapback]407060[/snapback]</div>
    Well I hope an Xebra will work out for you. There are 3 guys in Bellingham, WA that now own an Xebra. One of them is who Sean is talking about doing the testing. His testing was at maximum speeds to the floor driving. Seans now trying to recruit a feather footer to do some testing too.

    If your close to Bellingham you could check Norms XebraPK out. Norm said you can contact too. (I can give you his e-mail address or phone #) It would be good for you to also talk to a new owner who got one of Seans Super Xebras. Norm's is a really nice one. It's a white truck with nice rims and USA eagles on the sides of it. Norm is very much wanting as much range AND speed as he can get. He's also a tinkier so he plans to do lots of testing and mods to his XebraPK truck.

    I also found my documentions from Zap. The 2 new mods to help with speed and range are:

    New charger $695 (on special for $400 until Earth day 4/22)
    New batteries XR36AGM $1,200

    Did you get ahold of Richard about that Obvio? I really think you should if you haven't. He should know what's going on with it since he's right there working with Zap. I think the Obvio is going to be up there in price though. But as you said you like it and it shouldn't be more than half the price of a Telsa.

    I hope something works out for you Daniel. I think now that the EV bug has hit you something will work out for you. I was just to impatient to wait for anything else that might be better.

    Also since the Obivo comes from Zap when it becomes available you could trade in your Xebra for an Obivo right?
     
    #84 tracysbeans, Mar 16, 2007
  5. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    14,487
    1,518
    0
    Location:
    Spokane, WA
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tracysbeans @ Mar 16 2007, 05:39 PM) [snapback]407083[/snapback]</div>
    Oh, Tracy, you have plenty to hold your head up about! There's no pride in being able to buy a super-expensive car. You've adjusted your lifestyle to conform to your principles and make do with a minimal vehicle, when other people might give the excuse that they "need" an SUV for grocery shopping. I applaud you, and everyone at any EV event will do likewise.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tracysbeans @ Mar 16 2007, 05:39 PM) [snapback]407083[/snapback]</div>
    The coolest things saw at the alternative fuel fair in Lacey, WA, were two armchair EVs: Two different guys had converted their overstuffed armchairs into electric vehicles. They were not street-legal. But they looked comfortable.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tracysbeans @ Mar 16 2007, 05:53 PM) [snapback]407091[/snapback]</div>
    I didn't reach Richard but I talked to someone else who was very helpful. He was the one who told me it would probably be late 2008 or early 2009 before the Obvio becomes available. $50,000 will be outside most people's price range, but since I'd pay twice that for a car with those specs, it'd be great for me. But that's a decision that won't come for a while.

    I am six hours from Bellingham, and presently in no condition for a trip. It may be a couple of months before my doctor lets me take a long car trip, due to the fact that sitting puts pressure on the prostate.

    The $15K price guesstimate on the Xebra PK LRX includes the extra batteries and controler that Sean would install, but does not include any options, taxes, or shipping.

    And if I buy a street organ I'd probably be able to take it downtown in the Xebra.

    Here in WA our electricity comes from hydroelectric plants. That means that an EV in WA is, in a very real sense, a water-powered vehicle.
     
    #85 daniel, Mar 16, 2007
  6. tracysbeans

    tracysbeans Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    979
    0
    0
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    BREAKING NEWS FOR ANYONE IN MONTANA:

    They are trying to pass legislation to allow Nevs to go up to 35mph!

    Maybe once they do other states will follow!!!
     
    #86 tracysbeans, Mar 16, 2007
  7. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    15,140
    611
    0
    Location:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Vehicle:
    2013 Nissan LEAF
    Model:
    Persona
    so the xebra requires a motorcycle license?
     
    #87 DaveinOlyWA, Mar 16, 2007
  8. tracysbeans

    tracysbeans Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    979
    0
    0
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveinOlyWA @ Mar 16 2007, 11:53 PM) [snapback]407206[/snapback]</div>

    Dave, Yes normally in most states it does. I think I posted from someone in WA though how simple it was to get a motorcycle license there.

    Hey are you close to those 3 guys in WA Dave??
     
    #88 tracysbeans, Mar 16, 2007
  9. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    14,487
    1,518
    0
    Location:
    Spokane, WA
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveinOlyWA @ Mar 16 2007, 08:53 PM) [snapback]407206[/snapback]</div>
    What the fellow at GreenCarCo told me is that WA does require a motorcycle license, but you do not have to take a test on a two-wheeler. There's a written test, and the driving test could be taken in the three-wheeled "motorcycle."

    I did not ask, because I didn't care, whether this is a special license allowing you to drive only a three-wheeler.

    Note for people outside WA: Every state will have its own laws and its own regulations. Check with your local DMV.
     
    #89 daniel, Mar 16, 2007
  10. tracysbeans

    tracysbeans Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    979
    0
    0
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Mar 17 2007, 12:20 AM) [snapback]407229[/snapback]</div>
    From talking to the main DMV supervisor here I think the DMV here just registers the Xebra and sends you on your way. I think then your on your own to get the motorcycle license. That's what it seemed like talking with her. I got my motorcycle license through the local community college. I had to use one of their bikes for the course. It was along time ago but I think I had to go for like 6 or 8 weeks one night a week. Anyway I passed the course but my teacher made sure that I knew I barley passed. :unsure: Since I was the teachers pet I think that got me a few points. :p
     
    #90 tracysbeans, Mar 17, 2007
  11. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    14,487
    1,518
    0
    Location:
    Spokane, WA
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Relevant for Washington State only:

    http://www.dol.wa.gov/driverslicense/triketesting.html

    Stuff about getting a license to drive a motorcycle with a sidecar or a trike. WA has separate licenses (or license endorsements) for motorcycles and for trikes (the latter includes motorcycles with a sidecar). You can get either one or both, but they involve separate tests.

    Presumably, the Xebra would be treated as a trike.



    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tracysbeans @ Mar 16 2007, 10:19 PM) [snapback]407270[/snapback]</div>
    Registering the vehicle, and getting a license to drive it, are separate matters and typically handled in separate offices.

    Courses are available, but for adults probably are not required.
     
    #91 daniel, Mar 17, 2007
  12. tracysbeans

    tracysbeans Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    979
    0
    0
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Mar 17 2007, 01:26 AM) [snapback]407275[/snapback]</div>

    Oh crap so I might have taken that course for no special reason? :eek: Is that what your saying? :blink:
     
    #92 tracysbeans, Mar 17, 2007
  13. tracysbeans

    tracysbeans Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    979
    0
    0
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    This is what Norm a new Xebra owner said to me:

    I can help with advice if that is of use to him. I was very reluctant to buy the Xebra until I was satisfied that I would be able to drive it on the roads in WA so I did some research. :)

    ..
    Norm


    He seems to really be liking his Xebra truck.
     
    #93 tracysbeans, Mar 17, 2007
  14. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    14,487
    1,518
    0
    Location:
    Spokane, WA
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tracysbeans @ Mar 16 2007, 10:45 PM) [snapback]407288[/snapback]</div>
    No. The course is probably useful. Like a safe driving course. A motorcycle or trike is very much more dangerous than a car. If they teach you anything you didn't know, it's money well spent. I plan on taking it. (If and when I get the Xebra.)

    Please PM me Norm's email, if he gave you permission to do so.

    P.S. Right now safety is what I am pondering. No air bags. No reinforcement of the cabin. No VSC.

    The Tango appears very safe, but costs more than the Tesla for only a 55-mile range. With lithium batteries and a 250-mile range it costs half again more than the Tesla. And has less useful storage space than the Xebra PK.
     
    #94 daniel, Mar 17, 2007
  15. darelldd

    darelldd Prius is our Gas Guzzler

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2006
    6,057
    389
    0
    Location:
    Northern CA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tracysbeans @ Mar 16 2007, 02:40 PM) [snapback]406994[/snapback]</div>
    One reason I don't speak of them much is for many of the reasons you gave above. The Sparrow is a lot more money with many of the limitations of the cheaper vehicles. It does have high speed - though it is dangerous to go there - they truly scare the hell out of me - and this from a guy who rides a bicycle in traffic. Ever been in one? Makes the Tango seem like a Suburban. Single occupant is a practical negative. Plus I simply do not need a "vehicle" with less range than the distance that I typically ride my bicycle. Just has no interest for me.

    In the end, I'd like to get people out of the automobile all-together. But that ain't gonna happen, and the easiest step is to get them into a less damaging vehicle that still fufills all of their real and perceived needs.

    If we don't buy the expensive full-featured BEVs today, we aren't gonna have better/cheaper ones tomorrow. It really is as simple as that for me.
     
    #95 darelldd, Mar 17, 2007
  16. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    15,140
    611
    0
    Location:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Vehicle:
    2013 Nissan LEAF
    Model:
    Persona
    there is a xebra dealer in Kirkland and i will be going up there today to check one of these things out in person.

    Tracy, as far as others who have one, if they are willing to let me take a look at theirs you can pm me with contact details. you can give them my number. as far as location, not a good idea for me to wander too far from home right now so limiting trips to within 100 miles of Olympia. that would be to the Oregon border going south or say to about 50 north of seattle. in about a month or two, i will be able to go anywhere i can drive RT in a day. that would pretty much include all of Western WA with the exception of the outer parts of the Olympic peninsula

    also if Sat day is not good, how about Sat night or Sunday night. let me know what is too late for you ok? we have a time difference and i dont want to keep you up
     
    #96 DaveinOlyWA, Mar 17, 2007
  17. darelldd

    darelldd Prius is our Gas Guzzler

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2006
    6,057
    389
    0
    Location:
    Northern CA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Mar 16 2007, 04:11 PM) [snapback]407060[/snapback]</div>
    Jeez! I missed a whole page of responses somewhere along the line! Didn't mean to ignore all this. Daniel has it right on the money here. I don't expect everybody to agree on the details - we all pushing for the same end result. If we all agreed on how to get there, we'd stagnate. Education of the masses is key, and that means showing drivers how much actually CAN be accomplished with a GEM. Or in other words - some folks need to realize how silly it is to drive a "full-featured" gas car capable of 100+mpg and 500 miles of range when most of their driving is under 10 miles, and at surfac-street speeds.
     
    #97 darelldd, Mar 17, 2007
  18. tracysbeans

    tracysbeans Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    979
    0
    0
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Mar 17 2007, 01:03 PM) [snapback]407409[/snapback]</div>

    Darell, No I haven't riden or driven a Sparrow of NMG. I would like to BUT at low speed. I would be to scared to drive it fast on the freeway. I have ALWAYS wanted to drive a Sparrow or a NMG. Hopefully some day I can do that. I like the Tango too. Especially if Clooney would give me a ride B) But gosh the Tango is SO skinny looking.

    I hear Meyer Motors is working on more range for the NMGs though.

    I need my electric vehicle to be a pickup truck so I can use it for my business so I'm limited in that way.

    Limitations Limitations. That's the BIG problem with all of this.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveinOlyWA @ Mar 17 2007, 01:07 PM) [snapback]407413[/snapback]</div>

    Dave, I'm a night owl and I think your behind me in time so anytime is fine.

    If your close to OR I would definatly call Sean and talk to him. He's the best Xebra dealer if you want more range and/or speed. I gotta see what city Sean is in. Let me go check to see. He's your guy Dave.
     
    #98 tracysbeans, Mar 17, 2007
  19. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    14,487
    1,518
    0
    Location:
    Spokane, WA
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tracysbeans @ Mar 17 2007, 03:45 PM) [snapback]407591[/snapback]</div>
    The Tango is made right here in Spokane. I've seen it, but not ridden in it becuse it was being modified when I visited.

    It's a two-seater, one in front of the other. Rear passenger straddles the driver's seat, just like on a motorcycle. The rear seat comes out, for cargo space, but with the rear seat in place, there is zero cargo space and there is zero floor space in front of the rear seat.

    It is as narrow as a big motorcycle. You can go anywhere and park anywhere a big motorcycle could. It is designed to minimize the space it occupies, to reduce traffic congestion.

    It is built like a tank, extremely safe. But he could not afford to do safety testing, so it comes as a "kit" so that he didn't have to pass government safety regulations. It is so bottom-heavy that it is nearly impossible to tip over.

    But it has no regenerative braking, and the base model, at $108,000 ($16K more than a Tesla!) with lead-acid batteries has a range of 55 miles. Lithium batteries are another $40K for 250 miles. NiMH batteries are intermediate in both range and price.

    If you put racing slicks on it it will go zero to sixty in 4 seconds, and it has a very high top speed. It has 4 wheels.

    They told me if I ordered one that day there would be a six month waiting period. It is a microscopic company, capable of building just 3 or 4 units a month. There is a $50,000 deposit to order one, but the money goes into escrow, so should be secure.

    The actual vehicle in person is much less ugly than the pictures.

    I've decided that for me, it's too expensive for the range. I can afford $100K for a car, but I won't pay that much unless it's a superlative car that totally meets my needs for an EV. $108K is too much for 55 miles, and $148K is too much for 250 miles, and the passenger/cargo trade-off would make it only a stop-gap car for me, and $100K is more than I'll pay for a stop-gap car.
     
    #99 daniel, Mar 17, 2007
  20. tracysbeans

    tracysbeans Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    979
    0
    0
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    How about this Daniel? :lol:

    Daniels New Ride

    PS Jetsons was my favorite cartoon!

    Info from GM

    Behinds the curtain view of battery development for the Volt:

    GM Volt
     
    #100 tracysbeans, Mar 17, 2007
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 5 of 7