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Anti-EV metals and class warfare

Discussion in 'EV (Electric Vehicle) Discussion' started by bwilson4web, Jul 15, 2017.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Source: Dirty Secrets of Electric Cars - Fueling U.S. Forward

    . . . Electric car batteries are made from toxic, hard-to-find metals called “rare earths.” These rare earth metals, including lithium and cobalt, are mined primarily in places like China and the Democratic Republic of Congo, where pollution is rampant and thousands of children are forced to work in the mines.
    . . .    ​

    Source: Hidden Costs of Electric Cars - Fueling U.S. Forward

    . . . The government says it’s trying to promote a “greener” future for Americans. But these subsidies are really creating a massive wealth transfer, a reverse Robin Hood, from America’s poor to rich. How? Because many electric cars cater primarily to luxury buyers. In fact, a study from UC Berkeley found that 90% of electric car subsidies go to households who make well over six figures annually. CNBC and Edmunds have also compiled similar research on this wealthy “sweet spot” for many electric car buyers.
    . . .    ​

    There is data suggesting we're going to see more of these types of attacks. The my best answers:
    1. According to Bloomberg, Australia is expanding their cobalt operations which are a by-product of nickel and copper mining. Even USA mines are being prepped to resume operation. Then the kids in the Congo can go back to starving.
    2. Electric cars are expensive unless you look at current and used prices. It is the used EV car that becomes affordable and the best way to make used EVs is to get the rich to replace them with the latest models. IMHO, California limiting their rebates based on income is short sighted.
    Bob Wilson
     
    #1 bwilson4web, Jul 15, 2017
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  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    this ties in pretty well with the other article with big oil acknowledging the future will be ev powered. but they are like any old industry, entrenched, with plenty of capital to spread around.

    otoh, the general public does not read this propaganda, but they mostly want suv's and cheap gas.
     
    #2 bisco, Jul 15, 2017
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  3. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Rare earth metals aren't rare in nature. The ores just tend to not be found as concentrated together as other minerals are. This leads to more strip mining, but whatever we use has some type of environmental impact.
     
    #3 Trollbait, Jul 16, 2017
  4. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    I think regardless of propulsion method, before too long, we're gonna have to pry ourselves out of our cars, go to all mass transit, with taxis for remote areas.
     
    #4 Mendel Leisk, Jul 16, 2017
  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Or pods:
    [​IMG]

    Bob Wilson
     
    #5 bwilson4web, Jul 16, 2017
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  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    That guy's got problems, :eek:
     
    #6 Mendel Leisk, Jul 16, 2017
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  7. kevinwhite

    kevinwhite Active Member

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    Another misleading statement in the article is that Lithium and Cobalt are not "rare earths".

    Rare earth metals are used for the magnets in most EV motors although it is not universal - Tesla uses induction motors that don't need rare earths.

    kevin
     
    #7 kevinwhite, Jul 16, 2017
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  8. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Cobalt is historically a strategic metal in limited supply I want to say South Africa. I have always been worried about Cobalt supply, but I am not up to date on it. God knows we have megatons of cobalt in landfills though because we throw everything away.
     
    #8 wjtracy, Jul 16, 2017
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    they'll figure out other tech when supply becomes a problem. i think we're a long way from mass transportation.
    these articles are all hype.
     
    #9 bisco, Jul 16, 2017
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  10. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    The rolling coal / anti ev crowd will forever continue their mantra ... "there is no spoon" ... oops ... i mean, "there is no better way - my way".
    Yep - they'll take the blue pill
    [​IMG]
    ;)
    .
     
    #10 hill, Jul 16, 2017
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  11. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    The articles are the type of false claims that often feed local news and lazy reporters. Remember the old nickel scam about Sudbury? That and resentment against the wealthy is what these two articles are about. So collecting the counter-claims is how we are ready to reply with facts and data. ... better still, with humor.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #11 bwilson4web, Jul 16, 2017
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  12. HPrimeAdvanced

    HPrimeAdvanced Senior Member

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    Found this article; pretty damned negative, but haven't really read thoroughly, just thought I'd run it past you guys.
    http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2018/03/auto-execs-not-into-bevs/

    Sounds like a bunch of naysayer propaganda, at first impression.

    I'm going to bed for now!

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
    AChoiredTaste.com
     
    #12 HPrimeAdvanced, Mar 24, 2018
  13. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    This was my contribution to the comments:

    The revolution starts with skirmishes so we have a 2014 BMW i3-REx and 2017 Prius Prime, plugins:

    1) Both run on batteries around town for half the cost of gasoline per mile. About 1/3d of those electric miles are free from local merchants while shopping or dinner.

    2) Both run on gasoline if the remote charger is down or busy. Both have gone on trips over 1,000 miles on gas and the BMW i3-REx continued on battery when we had an engine problem last summer to return home and the dealer on EV.

    3) Both have dynamic cruise control and automatic collision braking. The 2014 version is optically based so weather and light can kick it out. The 2017 is both optical and radar based and has not kicked out.

    There is an old saying, never let perfect become the enemy of good enough. Neither is fully EV and neither is fully self driving. But our 90% City driving is as cheap as an EV and dynamic cruise control is mandatory for us.    ​

    Bob Wilson
     
    #13 bwilson4web, Mar 24, 2018
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  14. pilotgrrl

    pilotgrrl Senior Member

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    I'm wondering if Wes Lutz is related to Bob Lutz. If so, I would take his opinion with a grain of salt.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
    #14 pilotgrrl, Mar 24, 2018
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  15. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    In the US, I would expect continued generous incentives and/or mandates after the current credits expire. I always say, I see it like ethanol, in addition to E10, we will have e10, and 10% mandate of the gaso's market.
     
    #15 wjtracy, Mar 24, 2018
  16. HPrimeAdvanced

    HPrimeAdvanced Senior Member

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    True, California does limit "EV" (cars using electricity in part or wholly for motive power) incentives for the very wealthy; they have, however, simultaneously given extra cash incentives to people who are on the other end of the pay scale. It'll be interesting to see the long-term effect of this policy. The advantage of course is that you put relatively trouble-free, economical new cars into the hands of people on marginal incomes.
    With incentives, the base Prime becomes cheaper to buy than models of the Camry and regular Prius, and of course much more affordable than SUV's both in initial investment and in ownership costs. The problem here lies with manufacturers unwilling to sufficiently dedicate themselves to promoting and manufacturing these types of cars. In the last 6 months, I have finally heard a single "rushed mention" of the Prime in an ad on am radio. That's it! In the largest car market in the United States!
    I eagerly await the Corolla and Fit plug-in vehicles, if they should ever appear; you don't have to have a "video arcade enhanced" car to have a plug-in hybrid. KISS, Keep It Simple Stupid; give us less junk and more spunk!!
    Yeah, their profit margins will shrink, but kids, and less well-to-do folks will be more able to share in the greening of America!

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
    AChoiredTaste.com
     
    #16 HPrimeAdvanced, Mar 24, 2018
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