Any one else getting more than 30 per charge?

Discussion in 'Prime Fuel Economy & EV Range' started by Toyotaisme, May 20, 2017.

  1. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Yeah, that sure would kill EV efficiency. Only sure way to increase EV efficiency is to drive slow. Also if you can pick the route that is as flat as it can be, that will help too. In my case, if I don't use any gas, uphill kills my EV efficiency. I drive my daily commute at average speed of 38mph on rural back road, but has enough elevation changes that makes EV drive to deplete large portion of energy on uphill and never regain enough on downhills.

    elevation 7-12-19.png
     
    #921 Salamander_King, Sep 30, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2019
  2. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Do you have a legend for that graph @Salamander_King ?

    Hmm ok I don't feel so bad :). I got a solid 35 miles (57km) on EV driving only with my traffic/terrain/driving style during the summer months. Excellent. (I've seen the GOM crest 37.5/60km with climate on this summer).

    Now the GOM is down to 52km (32.5 miles) and real is around there too... damn rain. (got down to 4-5kWh/mile once the heater came on and you have to push through water on the road).
     
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  3. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    The graph is a screen capture from the Hybrid Assistant report on my routine commute all done on EV mode. Total distance 18.4 miles (x-axis) vs. elevation changes in meter (y-axis left) green line. I don't know how the Hybrid Assistant assigns "0 m". I believe that number is arbitrary marked. I did not start the trip 25 meters below sea level. LOL On the right y-axis is the cumulative traction battery energy used (or regenerated when decreasing) in kWh indicated by the red line. The total used traction battery energy was 3.7kWh for 18.4 miles EV drive. That makes 18.4/3.7=4.97miles/kWh for this run. This is fairly typical number I get for just driving EV mode on this route without doing much.

    elevation profile.png
     
    #923 Salamander_King, Oct 1, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2019
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  4. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    Maybe the screen capture makes sense to you? I've looked at the Hybrid Assistant's elevation gauge
    (quoted in meters) and it didn't make any sense to me, so I've only checked it one other time, again it didn't compute.
    Ill a test that the Hybrid Assistant's developer is probably the only person that knows what that screen shows. Maybe one or two other people. And perhaps it is the Hybrid Reporter app the screen capture came from?
    It looks pretty! :sleep: :coffee::sleep:
     
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  5. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    There are some oddities on HA reports that I can't quite understand how they computed the numbers. However, as far as the elevation profile along the route is concerned, I think they get data directly from the Google Map they use for the map data in the report. Here is the elevation profile for the route I used and captured from the Google Map shown at the bottom for comparison. As you can see the profile matches well. The highest point 446ft and lowest point 10ft, the difference is 436ft which is 132 meter, and that matches roughly the high to low elevation difference HA report is showing.

    elevation profile-vert.jpg
     
    #925 Salamander_King, Oct 1, 2019
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  6. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    :confused:
    If I ever get more into the ups and downs I'd want a garmin, but they are a bit pricey, still. You've heard how they've changed GPS in the last 10 years or so? security for all - yay!
    All kidding aside, and again, I'm glad you weren't offended by my slightly off centered comment in my previous post. :confused:
    I've checked elevation in my original install of torque lite - in 2014? for the PIP? It gave decent real time elevation changes in feet. I haven't been able to (I'm really not trying to hard either) change the torque updated apps elevation settings from the defaults.
    I'm having plenty of fun using the OEM gauges to try an map out the functionality of the EV driving experience.
    Techstream, HA, Torque, Carista, all in good time, maybe :cool:
     
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  7. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Thanks. Yeah that threw me off (you’re not in Death Valley lol) and I didn’t think of cumulative so the red line also confused me.
     
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  8. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    #928 Salamander_King, Oct 30, 2019
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  9. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    Good time to start a graph of kWh/mile loss as ambient temps drop.
    Than see if the opposite is also true when it gets warmer again.

    eyeball estimate without logging was around 15 to 20 F / kWh/mile (very variable depending on all the things related to kWh/mile)
     
  10. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Here is graph of my monthly record for the first two years up to Jun this year. Last three month data were not included since I have very wild monthly kWh/mile record like 28.8 kWh/mile in Aug, and if included in the graph it flattens the rest.

    Note: Feb of this year, I did not charge my PRIME at all resulting monthly miles/kWh of zero.

    monthly mpk.png
     
    #930 Salamander_King, Oct 30, 2019
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  11. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    This is the graph if I include last three months data including Aug.

    Monthly mpk2.png
     
  12. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    Monthly averages can be very misleading when determining actual kWh/mile. As you mentioned above your record of 28.8 kWh/mile flattens out your graph.
     
  13. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Yap! And the daily record of miles/kWh is even more misleading as I can intentionally keep it at 99.9miles/kWh if I cheat.

    IMG_20190821_061242.jpg
     
  14. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    Anything is misleading if cheated. Isn't that the definition of misleading?
    Daily, monthly, yearly of life of the car. What's your point?
     
  15. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Not trying to make any point. I was just responding to your call for "a graph of kWh/mile". That's all.
     
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  16. benagi

    benagi Active Member

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    Curious how you get those 99.9. Does It help with improving eco scores?
     
  17. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    Oh, I see now.
    I've dabbled with estimating the loss in kWh/mile as I drove the car while the weather was getting colder last year. It's too variable to do eyeballing it, but sometimes it can appear linear. Which is how I came up with an approximation of 1 kWh/mile for every 15 to 20 degrees F. as the ambient temps dropped and similarly as temps rose again in spring.
    But the car doesn't show the kWh/mile dropoff with ambient temp dropoff linearly without using other gauges and running some numbers, the same as the % EV and ICE like PiPLosAngeles mentioned in another thread.

    I do think a daily graph would be interesting to look at, especially if ambient temps are included.
    those 3 99.9 kWh/mile readings would give the detail about the gauge capacity if nothing else and would be a great contrast to the cold weather 3+ or - kWh/mile readings I've seen in out car.
     
    #937 vvillovv, Oct 31, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2019
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  18. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    You can get the maximum EV efficiency number of 99.9miles/kWh by switching to EV mode ONLY when the car is decelerating or on the downhill. All other driving when you need to MOVE your car, switch back to HV mode and use gas. In essence, you are moving your car forward only by inertia not using any traction battery while you are in the EV mode. Just like 199.9mpg (for 2017 model) is the max fuel efficiency for HV, 99.9miles/kWh is the max for EV the car will display.

    For your latter question, NO IT HAS NO EFFECT on the Eco Score. If anything it probably negatively affect the score, due to excessive use of HV mode. However, I don't think the Eco score is directly tied to the gas use, so if you do the same conservative driving while in the HV mode, it should have no effect.

    One reason I did this was to see if those 99.9miles/kWh records on the daily log will increase the GOM EV range. Turns out, the car knows that I am in effect cheating the system, and it did not count those numbers in calculating the GOM EV range at all. I kept 99.9miles/kWh for several weeks, but during those days, GOM remained totally unchanged, no increase nor decrease as if I was not doing any EV mode drives. The car is smart enough not to count those numbers, however, those daily records did increase the monthly average number artificially as shown in the graph in Aug when I did this.
     
    #938 Salamander_King, Oct 31, 2019
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  19. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    The effect of the temperature on EV range has been eloquently demonstrated by @Prius from Dad. See his graph in the linked post below. It is definitive that lower temperature decreases EV range on linear relation.
    Decreasing Mile Range | Page 2 | PriusChat
    The screengrab of @Prius from Dad graph. I hope he does not mind copying here.
    Screenshot 2019-10-31 at 6.00.57 AM.png
     
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  20. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    I've keep the gauge showing 99.9 kWh/mile for approximately 2 miles one morning just after midnight on a 3 mile rolling downhill.
    I usually drive that downhill 3 miles as far below the speed limit as traffic allows to gauge about how far I'll be able to drive in EV.
    But other factors can change that estimate big time, like wind direction and speed, rain, snow, etc.
    The morning I wanted to see how far I could keep the gauge pegged, I tried to time when I'd reach the 2 mile steepest part of the decent at midnight and got the car briefly about 10 mph above the speed limit, which is normal local speed of most driver on that road. Than backed off the go pedal just like a pulse and glide, keeping my eye on the (motor, engine, battery usage graphic) to back off more if the graphic showed the gold line of the car using battery, while trying to keep the graphic either static (not using battery or getting regen) or the green lime of regen.

    As far as the GOM is concerned, it takes a lot of EV driving (beating the GOM by 5 to 10 miles in my experience) to make significant upward changes to the estimate. And when coupled with HV driving can sometimes boost the GOM even higher than consistent EV only driving.
     
    #940 vvillovv, Oct 31, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2019
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