Any one else getting more than 30 per charge?

Discussion in 'Prime Fuel Economy & EV Range' started by Toyotaisme, May 20, 2017.

  1. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    Just a little nit picky, hopefully not too obnoxious on my part?
    Does anyone else notice in the graph by @Prius from Dad
    a longer flatter plateau, than a hump, than a steeper assent?
    or is it just me
     
  2. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Yes, GOM and DM2 miles/kWh number both takes distance driven on EV mode into consideration, unlike daily Eco Diary numbers. Very high miles/kWh numbers in a short distance dose not have much effect on the lifetime miles/kWh shown on DM2. Similarly, for the GOM to register any changes upward requires at least 50% battery SOC utilization between charges. However, my experience has been that GOM changes downward is far more sensitive to the daily miles/kWh even with very short distance EV driving. Thus it is very easy to drop the GOM number in a single day of very low miles/kWh, but takes days of high miles/kWh to recover the loss.
     
  3. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    I notice that too.
    Would you agree that the loss of GOM estimate is usually due to similar persistent variables inducing lower GOM estimates?

    For the sake of argument using unrealistic variable, would you agree that
    if there was one day that was below freezing in the middle of the very warm summer time ambient temps and the GOM dropped considerably that freezing day, do you think it would still take as long to recover the higher GOM estimate on the next very warm summer day, minus any other GOM reducing variables during the next days drive?
     
  4. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    In my case it is usually not an external variable, or at least not an environmental parameter that drops GOM on the following day of low miles/kWh record. Here is actual daily changes of GOM displayed miles and the daily record of miles/kWh. On the day miles/kWh dropped to 4.3 miles/kWh, my wife took the car and drove it 15 miles on EV around town. Following day GOM dropped precipitously down below 40 miles. It took me 1 months to bring the GOM back to where it was.

    In your hypothetical situation, my guess is any downward drop in GOM in a single day will still take as long to recover the higher GOM estimate.

    GOM vs MPK.png
     
    #944 Salamander_King, Oct 31, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2019
  5. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    I've gotten used to my wife driving our Prime daily. Unlike with the PiP, after she drove that the first few times and the 06 civic hybrid, her numbers are consistently lower, 10 mpg in the civic.
    It's just traffic differences and driving style.
    I find it hard to ride quietly (unless I'm sleeping) while in heavy traffic and so does she.
     
  6. marcoinpb

    marcoinpb Junior Member

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    My charging is on 110 starting at midnight most every night. When REALLY hot out , usually around 36. High of 38 and occasionally 37. When real hot 32-33.

    this Prime is 11 months old. When new I considered putting in 220v and charger. Fortunately I compared the 110v no expense charger to performance 220v 2.5 hours to charge. With 110v 4.5 hours. Not a hard choice with the prime plugged in over night and a meaningful savings to not going to 220v.
     
  7. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Question for @Salamander_King and anyone else getting way over 5-6 miles per kWh:

    Maybe this info is on here somewhere, but I don't remember seeing it. What are your typical driving speeds? Around here, our road speeds are rarely under 50 mph and usually over 60. With lots of red lights to stop at. That gobbles up EV range like a teenage boy eating a pizza. I have a mental image of you guys leisurely tooling along winding country roads at about 35 mph or sticking to city streets.
     
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  8. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    I can get 5-6 miles/kWh in the summertime with no A/C, but anything higher than that will require manual switching of EV/HV to increase the number by avoiding EV on acceleration and up-hill. But for the most part, your description fits very well with my daily driving.

    MY lifetime average speed over 36kmiles of driving is 34MPH. This includes occasional highway driving at 75mph. But my daily commuting route of 18 miles (one way) has a top speed limit of 45 mph with 2 traffic lights (there was none until 3 years ago). However, almost everyone on this route drives faster than the speed limit. If I strictly obey the speed limits along the entire route, my average speed would be ~28mph, but it would be a sure thing to cause a long trail of pick-up trucks tail gaiting me. lol

    IMG_20191107_153425.jpg
     
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  9. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    My wife drives in rush hour traffic. The only way I can boost the average is if I drive when there is as little traffic as possible.
    In the summer it's possible to get 8 or 9 miles / kWh all EV but you have to drive like an old lady that only drives one Sunday a month to do it. 10 to 15 mph. If you have to speed up due to a car behind, whatever the kWh/mile gauge drops to while doing the speed limit and before slowing down again, is usually what the gauge stays at for the rest of the trip.
    At 35 mph with no traffic it's still not to hard to go 40 miles on a charge in the summer. At 55 with little or no traffic low 30's is about all you can expect in summer strictly EV without using HV at all.
    And it takes time in the spring to get the GOM back up, which has some bearing on how far the car will go in EV. If the GOM says 15 estimated EV miles, there is no way the car will go 40 miles on a single charge unless on a 20 mile decent than flat.
     
    #949 vvillovv, Nov 7, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
  10. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    Here’s this weeks stats:):

    02C9800E-69DB-4FE6-8A15-77AA5E837194.jpeg

    My driving is 65 mph in light traffic and 78 miles round trip;).

    3x the mpg of the Gen3 it replaced too(y).
     
  11. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Oh, I would love those conditions!!!!!!
    I have a 9.5 mile one way commute with 4 stop signs and 6 lights. (They are adding another one to further congest the most congested stretch when they really need to add a traffic lane or alternate route.) Speeds are 45-55 except in the first few blocks and the 2-1/2 miles of bad congestion. I looked back to my earliest records from March-April and I was usually getting 5.5 to 6 m/kWh on work days when I didn't have meetings at church. That run is 55-60 mph for 17 miles with a stop roughly once per mile.

    You're getting close to the same numbers I was getting before the heat hit. My numbers are now starting to climb, but we're still about 10F above normal for our highs.
     
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  12. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Until this spring, I was driving simply on EV mode continuously until it reached to zero SOC everyday without switching EV/HV. My eco diary record for this period reflected strictly the ambient temperature changes. Summer Jul-Aug 5-6miles/kWh, Fall Sep-Oct ~4miles/kWh, Winter Nov-Apr, 2-3miles/kWh, Spring May-Jun ~4miles/kWh. Note that we have 5-6 months of winter/year which coincides with the heating season when temperature drops below freezing.

    This year from June, I started playing with EV/HV switch to give a boost on daily miles/kWh number by using HV on acceleration and uphill, and EV on mostly coasting and level terrain. This increases miles/kWh number artificially and result in longer EV range on GOM. As long as the EV drive is restricted to coasting and level terrain, the actual EV range is very close to what the GOM predict. It dose reduce overall MPG since gas is used for most of my daily trips, but I was able to manage to increase lifetime mpg corresponding to ODO while doing this during the warmer season. What I don't know is how this strategy works when it gets very cold. I am currently still able to get >10miles/kWh by doing this, but if overall mpg starts to tank, I may have to stop doing this and get back to normal 3-4 miles/kWh EV drives for this time of year.

    IMG_20191107_153350.jpg
     
    #952 Salamander_King, Nov 8, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
  13. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Yeah, I would think that, at least at our prices here, that would be about the most expensive way you could drive a Prime. My target isn't so much m/kWh as it is cost per mile. If I have to burn extra gas to raise the m/kWh, that's not going to help me reach my goals. But if gas is really cheap and electricity really expensive, then maybe that would be a more efficient technique.
     
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  14. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    Here’s the GoM this morning:

    D36AB7BE-8118-494E-8932-37D1DA56441D.jpeg

    With gas greater than $4 a gallon and free charging at work, driving efficiently helps(y).
     
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  15. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Yap, at moment I raised my lifetime EV efficiency to 5.0 miles/kWh, the cost of electric operated EV drive is now dead even with the gas operated HV drive, both standing at $0.045/mile.

    Initially I was trying to drive my car as much EV as I can like you and many other PRIME owners, but that resulted in overall decrease in EV efficiency at 4.5 miles/kWh. I think this is primarily due to the fact that using EV mode alone during winter in our region is very inefficient for both driving and heating. During winter commute, the ICE was running a half of time regardless. I think I can distribute the HV portion along entire commute and get better heating efficiency thus resulting in better EV miles/kWh.
     
  16. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    :confused::eek: Gasp, choke, splutter, cough!!!

    Ouch. Mine around town is under 2.5 cents/mile. Our big 6,000-mile road trip in may puts it close to 5 cents per mile, but that trip was almost 1/2 of my total miles so far. The trip was mostly around 6 cents per mile.
     
    #956 jerrymildred, Nov 8, 2019
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  17. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    My HCH cost/mile was $0.066/mile with lifetime 43.1MPG. My Gen3 was $0.046/mile with 49.2MPG. Of course they are driven during different period than my current PRIME with some overlap for HCH which was driven by my son until last year, so the gas prices are different. So far I am not seeing a huge benefit on switching to PRIME for purely cost/mile compared to Gen3, but you know well enough that there are huge improvements in other areas.;)
     
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  18. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    The number on my GOM this morning. But in the last two days, my eco diary number tanked to 3-4 miles/kWh with over 20% A/C load. It was a great run, but I'm going into winter mode.

    IMG_20191109_104452.jpg
     
  19. Laura-Ann

    Laura-Ann Junior Member

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    When I first bought my car, the battery monitor was reporting 37.5 miles range on a full charge. Over the first 5,000 miles, this has gradually decreased to 30.3. assume this is because the battery cells are degrading a little with each charge cycle. I am hoping this won't decline much more, or I won't be able to do even short errand runs totally on EV mode. I am trying to charge the battery as often as possible so that the gas engine is only used when I am away from home on a long road trip.
     
  20. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    I don't think it is battery degradation. Whatever the way you drove your car during your first 5,000 miles are making the car to estimate the EV range to ~30 miles. If you saw 37.5 miles on the GOM (Guess-O-Meter, or the meter on the dash that indicate the estimated EV range) when you first bought the car, whoever test drove the car before you took the delivery was very good hypermiler. A brand new car comes with ~25 miles or often less EV range on GOM. Mine was ~23 miles when new, and it took me more than 6 months to get GOM to show over 30 miles. And it took 2 years to get it above 40 miles.

    Check you monthly Eco diary record on Average miles/kWh. If this number has decreased from the time you bought the car, the estimation is just the reflection of the way you drive your car.

    monthly eco diary.png
     
    #960 Salamander_King, Nov 22, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
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