Any one else NOT sold on a plug - in?

I think I must just be having a hard time getting your point. Yeah, batteries are fairly expensive. But what's the point about lithium? I though car makers were moving to lithium to reduce costs per KWH.

There's already a lithium option for the Prius, available to fleet purchasers, that's less costly per nominal WH than the Prius NiMH. Your cost on the Prius NiMH pack works out to be $1.50/WH. The full retail on the Hymotion new-formulation li-ion works out to be $1.66/WH, and if you buy them as a fleet purchaser ($6K/5KWH) it works out to $1.20/WH, installed.

So, rationally, if they could make Li-ion batteries that would were cheaper than NiMH and would last the life of the car, that would pretty much replace nickel, wouldn't it?

Here, these guys say that individual cells for the Hymotion/A123 batteries will do over 7000 1-hour charge/discharge cycles.

A123Systems Hymotion L5 Plug-In Conversion Modules - greentechZONE

Can't say if that's for real or not. The battery packs they sell to DeWalt Tools are only rated for 2000 charges. I don't know if they are identical to the ones being built for cars. But the below is a slightly different formulation for which the lithium packs have already exceeded 3000 charge/discharge cycles:

GM-VOLT : Chevy Volt Electric Car Site

At $6K installed price to fleet purchasers, at the longer life cycle estimate, the Hymotion pack would be cost effective right now, assuming the vehicle would last that long. If they really will go 7000 cycles, that's pretty much a life-of-the-car battery, and at $6K up front, that'd save (by my estimate, at 20 electric miles per cycle) about $9K in gasoline cost over 7000 cycles. If the car would last that long. And if the batteries don't somehow develop a calendar life limit that (so far) has not appeared in A123's testing. At 3000 cycles, the fleet purchaser would lose $2K on the deal, at current gas prices. The full-retail customer would need more than the 7000 cycles to break even at current gas prices.

Anyway, right now, using Prius gas mileage as the basis from which to calculate cost savings, based on the current test data and fuel prices, fleet purchasers of those Hymotion packs could reasonably expect the packs might pay for themselves over the life of the vehicle. Depends on how much more than 3000 cycles you get, and whether the cars themselves will last that long.

So it's just not too far-fetched to think that, in the near future, EV and PHEV may become the cost-effective choice for transport. Not proven, by any means, but not implausible.

 

Except that BYD are the second largest manufacturer of lithium-ion batteries in the WORLD.

Their Li-Ion batteries are being "tested" day in day out by consumers with every kind of phone, laptop, camera and other portable device you can imagine.

If you want to see how advanced they are with their F6 PHEV, there is an entertaining read here: Detroit Auto Show: World Exclusive Surreal, Illegal Test Drive Of Chinese Hybrid Through Cobo Arena

 

Plus, you just have to admire BYD's approach. As I understand the story, they got rebuffed by car companies (including reportedly the US big 3). So they bought their own car company, in order to make the cars for their batteries.

 

Thundersky battery failure in Bob Siebert's AC150 conversion

http://www.youtube.com/v/FB1iKYgKSqo&hl=en&fs=1

Interesting perspective on Lithium battery

http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?archive=1&storyid=1180&first=6240&end=6239


The Volt can move too but at a slow pace

 

That story claiming potential future shortages of lithium has since been refuted by experts in the field, eg:

EVWORLD FEATURE: Revisiting Peak Lithium or Lithium in Abundance?: Lithium Ion Battery | Lithium Carbonate | Lithium Cartel