Anyone have any experience with PriusRebuilders Gen2 into Gen1 Stack?

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by Irrenarzt, Feb 15, 2013.

  1. Irrenarzt

    Irrenarzt Junior Member

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    Looks like it's time to install a new traction battery in my '03 Prius. I was planning on buying a new one from Olathe Toyota but it turns out the dealer networks are no longer selling stacks direct to customers and they referred me to my local stealership (which is a way overpriced place in the first place). I'm a DIY kind of guy and was planning to install it myself when the time came. Based on this, I was looking at alternatives and came across these well priced guys:

    Prius Rebuilders - Services

    I like the idea of the Gen2 cells into a Gen1 frame so I'd likely go with that option. Has anyone had any experience with this exact swap? Any feedback would be appreciated.

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I've had good results with ReInVolt of Summit NC. I helped install one in another Prius and decided to 'upgrade' my perfectly good pack because the NHW20 modules are so much improved.

    Bob Wilson
     
  3. slimfrancis

    slimfrancis Member

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    i'm driving an 01' prius that i rebuilt w/ gen. 2 modules myself and the car has been running and driving fine for over a year now. i just did the same job in an 02' prius last week and the car runs and drives excellent. i'll be doing another re-build this week on an 01' as soon as i buy another gen.2 battery. it is not a difficult job.

    there are a few things that differ such as gen. 2 modules are slightly longer. you will only be able to screw them back into the casing with one screw as opposed to 2 screws in gen. 1 modules. other than that, make sure you measure the modules in the gen. 2 batteries at the salvage yard so you know they are good before you lug those suckers around. (they're not fun to carry) also, the casing holes will not line up 100% because of the slightly longer modules so you may need to ream or widen the holes if you want to put every bolt back in place. i find letting 1 or 2 slide is not a big deal. just make sure it's nice and sturdy in your car. good luck!
     
  4. Irrenarzt

    Irrenarzt Junior Member

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    OK so no direct experience with Prius Rebuilders so far. I've heard of reinvolt but they seem to charge more than others for the same product more or less. How long should one realistically expect a rebuilt traction battery pack to last? 100K? 50K? Thanks for the input...
     
  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Let me suggest 'more' for the following reasons:
    • phone and e-mail - Dave Taylor understands the importance of balanced, Ahr, capacity modules
    • survey in-coming modules - it takes time and energy to measure modules from crashed Prius and Dave understands why this is important. This is critical to making a traction battery pack that lasts longer than his 1 year warranty.
    • no longer deals with NHW11 modules - at one time, he sold NHW11 module, rebuilt packs but no longer (thankfully!) Anyone who does fails to understand why.
    • enough volume - unlike individuals or smaller volume, traction battery rebuilders, Dave can maintain an inventory of screened and known NHW20 modules.
    • development of nickel plated buss and sensor wires - the KOH electrolyte "eats" copper but Dave, alone, developed and offers nickel plated buss and wiring.
    FYI, Dave Taylor is one H*ll of Southern Gentleman in the best sense of the word. I know, I'm Southern too, but I'm engineer through and through . . . and I would trust my life to a bolt Dave wrenched.

    Bob Wilson
     
  6. slimfrancis

    slimfrancis Member

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    if you're mechanically inclined and want to pay NOTHING to do this job i would suggest:

    - buy 2 salavaged gen.2 packs from a salvage yard for under $500 each
    - sell off the remaining 18 modules for $35 on ebay. ($630 value)
    - sell off your empty gen 2 core casings on ebay for $150-200 each. ($400 value)

    now you've BROKE EVEN and possibly made money and you OWN a re-built gen 1. pack w/ gen 2. modules. (not to mentioned you will have learned a great deal in the process)
     
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  7. andrew costanza

    andrew costanza New Member

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    I bought a gen 1 battery w gen 2 cells from priusrebuilders
    about six months ago. they where very professional and knowledgeable.
    Mark had several batteries in stock and quite a large stock of gen 2 cells that were all in the
    process of being individually tested. I felt very comfortable doing business with him and didn't think he was any less
    professional than re-involt or all the other rebuilders out there. I had called up several companies before choosing to go with priusrebuilders and choose them for several reasons
    A. they were better priced than most .
    B. they were also local enough for me to check them out by myself.
    C. mark installed the battery for me so i didn't have to deal with all the hassle.
    its now 6 months later and my car is still doing 45 mpg+
    I would recommend them to anyone that is in need of a Prius hybrid battery.
     
  8. 3prongpaul

    3prongpaul Hybrid Shop Owner, worked on 100's of Prius's

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    This used to be a good strategy, but all the rebuilders are snapping up the good "junkyard" batteries. This is driving up the price of good used Gen2 packs. (laws of supply and demand) The ones that remain are often high mileage, tired, or expensive.

    Not only are the rebuilders hunting down batteries, Gen2 owners with high mileage (and taxis etc) are clamoring for the same packs as well.

    Most "recyclers" have no idea what they have nor how to test packs. It may be hard to get 2 packs matched similar internal resistance and capacity. If the modules are not similar, the car will code.

    You may do ok, but buyer beware.
     
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  9. No Nonsense

    No Nonsense New Member

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    DO NOT BUY FROM PRIUS REBUILDERS in NJ. By far the worst internet purchase I have ever made. Mark started misleading me from the day I submitted my order. Said it would ship immediately, but waited 2 weeks and 3 calls from me, finally requesting that they cancel my order, for him to get my battery shipped. IT LASTED 2 MONTHS! He said it was covered under warranty but made me pay $220 for shipping and a $400 core charge to send 2nd battery. Called him 10 days later asking about my battery, and he had forgotten about my order! Finally sent it, I installed it and guess what? It was bad, threw off error codes within 5 minutes on the initial test drive. Emailed him about just getting my money back. He won't do it! He is offering me a 3RD battery!
     
  10. Benmuir

    Benmuir New Member

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    DONT NOT GO WITH PRIUS REBUILDERS!

    They are crap. I have a Gen 1 battery that failed within 8 months of installing it. Luckily I bought the extended warranty...oh wait, it was even more of a headache. After fighting with Mark to actually take my battery and repair it, it took them a month to send it back...meaning I was without a car for a month.

    And last week, the triangle of death just came back on...only 3 weeks after getting it back from them. So do yourself a favor and go with ANYONE else...
     
  11. redbarron55

    redbarron55 Junior Member

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    I purchased a rebuilt battery for my Prius ! with GEN II cells. I paid a premium and the battery had a foult initially but driving for a while I could reset the code 3006. To make a long story shorter after a month and a half (waiting for over a month for shipment in the first place) the battery failed. Another month + and no word form Falcon or prius rebuilders on the warranty replacement as promised.
    I took the car to a shop in Ft Walton and they removed and inspected the battery and found two bad cells and of the rest of the cells 1/2 tested OK and the rest were marginal. These cells are from 2004 and the tech said that these were the oldest cells he had ever seen!.
    Basiclly these cells were just slightly better than the scrap that Prius Rebuilders and Falcon purchase as scrap in bulk.
    In my opinion you are far better off taking your car to a local guy and have him test and change the bad cells like I ended up having to do to get my car running again.
    Do not trust these people and save your money and time and deal with honest trustworthy companies.
    If you read other bad reviews don't think that one bad report can happen to anyone like I did. They are bad news and stay away from them.
    By the time you have fought over replacement and paid freight and received a battery that is as big of a question mark as the one you removed you could buy one from a reputable company or have a speciaist replace a few bad cells and be better off.
    Dont believ their hype on having batteries ready to ship. It was over a month to get my first (bad) battery and over a month and I still have not heard that my (questionable) warranty replacement is ready.
    Abe Sokol had lied to be from start to finish and he will lie to you as well!
    Stay Away
     
  12. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    You have my sympathy which is why using Toyota parts has and remains a viable if somewhat expensive alternative. In 2009, ReInVolt/Dorman was an affordable, practical alternative. But I checked with them and their processes before spending $1,700. But six years later, the same issues remain of finding quality rebuilders or buying Toyota replacement parts. At least now, the replacement parts are more affordable than they had been in the past.

    Bob Wilson
     
  13. redbarron55

    redbarron55 Junior Member

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    It is 7/10/2015 and still no communications from Abe Sokol, Mark Sokol , Prius Rebuilders, or Falcon Hybrid Solutions about my defective battery. It has been well over a month since I informed them about the failure of my battery. They said 5-7 days to build a Gen I battery, but Abe emailed that they were thinking about putting together two and one of them would be mine. When he contacted me a week ago I had already given up on them and had a shop in Ft Walton R&R the battery and they replaced two bad cells. 1/2 of the rest were marginal and 1/2 were a little better, but they showed me the problems built in by the Sokols. Bulged and warped cells that were not screwed in since there wasn't enough clearance, untreated corrosion etc.
    If you are tempted to do business with them to save that 50% Mark Sokol is so proud of just remember I got 1 % of the life that I got from ny original battery! A very bad deal.
    I am posting every day during my break to make sure that the word is out on these guys. One would think that they would at least reimburse me for the work I had to have someone else do to get their scrapped together battery back in service! I hope I at least get some service from my $1850 + invested! Do not make my mistake yourself. Stay FAR away.
     
  14. kutcht1

    kutcht1 Member

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    Well, in the end you won. Just a bit lighter in the wallet but you are much smarter now. Glad you got it sorted out.
    TomK
     
  15. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    So what scrap do you have left over?

    Bob Wilson
     
  16. redbarron55

    redbarron55 Junior Member

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    I have the gen II cells and what I have are mostly at 7.8 volts when pulled out of the car to be replaced by the other battery.
    There are a few at 7.6 volts.
    I don't know what the AH capacity might be, but I have these cells, the case, the buss bars, the cables minus the one that goes the the computer from each block. I have the master relay etc.
    I think I can safely sell most of these for replacement of single cells to keep a pack with one or two bad cells going.
    This pack might be good for stretching the life of an old Prius like mine, but the AH available less than the newer one I lucked into.
    Unfortunately the capacity of the pack is limited by the worst cell ( I think ).
    I plan to sell these on ebay unless someone here wants to make me an offer.
    I can post a list of the cell numbers and voltage readings measured now after removal of this pack.
    I can offer the "Rebuilt pack less the block cable and computer if someone wants this thing.
    It would be better than buying one from Prius Rebuilders / Falcon Hybrid SolutionsM mark Sokol, or Abe Sokol since it was installed , failed and then repaired probably better than they would have done it.

    I think their quality control is very poor, but at least this one is tested to work now with less power out than the newer one (of course).
    If you have a few bad cells then as a second choice I would sell individual cells.
    If anyone is interested my email is Jeter . d , barron at gmail.com..
    Far better deal than dealing direct with the original seller. At least you would have sympathy if you have a problem, which you would not get from the charlatans that sold it to me.
    38 pretty good gen II cells. Two are weaker (lower voltage) than the others. Replace those as well and you might have a pretty good battery. As is it operates my car without throwing the red triangle.
    Anyone reading should have a complete history of this pack.
    After cooling off the pack doesn't seems the be warped.
    I can tell you that there is no support from Prius Rebuilders / Falcon Hybrid SolutionsM mark Sokol, or Abe Sokol and you should do no business with them under any circumstances.
    One could buy my pack and replace the two weaker cells and perhaps do pretty well on getting the car going again.
    If you have a GEN II cay you could possibly be good to go.
     
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  17. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Rebuilding a pack is not trivial nor impossible. But as you've confirmed, required balanced modules. You might contact Dorman and see what their going rate is.

    I spoke with Rex Taylor and know he has a clue about how to survey and rebuild packs. It is not trivial which is why I understand Art's Automotive and Lucious Garage got out of the business.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #17 bwilson4web, Jul 12, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2015
  18. redbarron55

    redbarron55 Junior Member

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    I measured the cells as removed yesterday Measured this morning)
    1 - 7.84 16 - 7.83 31 - 7.68*
    2 - 7.88 17 - 7.83 32 - 7.83
    3 - 7.86 18 - 7.81 33 - 7.85
    4 - 7.84 19 - 7.83 34 - 7.85
    5 - 7.89 20 - 7.84 35 - 7.89
    8 - 7.82 21 - 7.65* 36 - 7.90
    9 - 7.90 22 - 7.82 37 - 7.89
    10 - 7.83 23 - 7.83 38 - 7.88
    11 - 7.83 24 - 7.91
    12 - 7.82 25 - 7.83
    13 - 7.83 26 - 7.82
    14 - 7.81 27 - 7.85
    15 - 7.83 28 - 7.82
    I measured these this morning and marked the ones I think are weak with red above. My Guess is two better cells would make this a good battery for a GEN I with GEN II cells, but I am no expert. The way I see it is that Prius Rebuilders has about a 10.5 % failure rate on selecting cells for their rebuilds. With 38 cells they are almost guaranteed to have bad cells in their products with little or no after build testing. A very bad bet for their customers. I replaced two of them already and there are two to go as I figure it.
    At least these are the numbers from a running battery just removed. At 7.1 volts the cells will fault and throw the P3006 code. (I think)
    The cells I had replaced measured below 6.8 volts.
    Any takers?
     
  19. redbarron55

    redbarron55 Junior Member

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    Still no satisfaction from Prius Rebuilders / Falcon Hybrid Solutions! Well over a month since I calle them about th battery failure. No reply at all since they emailed me that they would soon be working on building a good battery (if they know how).
    I asked for a refund and they offer me much less than I paid since I got a month of limping around out of their POS battery.
    I want to be made whole and I don't think that is unreasonable.
    Never do anybusiness with this company or you may also be out time, money and effort like me. I also thought one problem or two migh ne a fluke and could happen to anyone, but what they do when there is a problem is what counts and the answer is NOTHING! Save your money! Save your sanity! Save your time and leave Prius Rebuilders / Falcon Hybrid Solutions alone. My guess is that they will soon be cooking up a new name so check who you are doing business with and protect yourself.
     
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