Anyone have solar panels

The system that we are putting in is 4.94 KW and is supposed to supply about 60% of our electrical needs, or about 6,000 KWh a year. This should drop us out of Tiers 4 & 5 (34 cents a KWh), and make a dent in Tier 3 (30 cents a KWh). Our bills average somewhere around 700 to 1000 KWh a month. What's funny is that since I've gotten the PiP, the overall monthly bill has gone down. Even month to month (April versus May) or year to year (April '11 versus April '12). Of course some of that may be due to different usage during the day (no longer have roommates at home during the day).

 

wow, and I thought my rates were high! we pay .20/kwh in mass. So your residential rates go UP with usage??
Our usage is about the same, and my 6.5kw system is supposed to produce about 90% of my power, though it's looking like we'll be close to 100%.
Good luck with your PV array!

 

Yeah we have a tiered system. It's supposed to encourage conservation. It starts out at 12 to 13 cents a KWh for a baseline amount. As you go over the baseline, it rapidly goes up. The baseline amount is only good for about a quarter to a third of our monthly usage. Tier 2 is 14.5 cents a KWh, Tier 3 is 30 cents a KWh, and Tiers 4 & 5 are both 34 cents a KWh. This is inclusive of all charges for production, transmission, and distribution.

When the system is turned on, we'll be on a Time of Use rate schedule, which adds a peak, partial-peak and off-peak set of rates in addition to the normal tiered system. The ideal is to shift consumption out of the peak and partial peak times while optimizing production during those same times. I get credit at the higher rate for production, and try to consume only at the lower rates. Because of the orientation of our panels (mostly east, 116 degrees), we'll get the most production in the mid-morning to early afternoon. Putting additional panels on the other side of the roof wouldn't be helpful because of shading and orientation issues.

 

Prius plugin = 4.4kwh battery
I have a 6.9kwh system. The most I've gotten was 5.0kwh via solar (that's kilo watt an hour)

So it might take "4 hours or 8 hours to charge the Prius battery" it only takes me an hour to produce that much electricity.

I don't own a Plugin (too expensive) even though I have solar.

I live in southern California and yes the federal credit can be rolled for up to 3 years at least. (might be 5... Ask a tax professional)

I went from having a 150 electricity bill during winter/spring/late fall down to they owe me or I owe them 10 to 15 bucks a month.

Beginning of summer I usually use my AC so I owe them 50/60 a month.

My electricity bill for 2011 was $185

I paid about 18k fort system. SMA Inverters and some 300 watt Chinese panels (ying le)

If you have any questions PM me as I don't read this forum to often.

 

Wow this thread exploded over the last week! First thanks to all the owners that chimed in. It looks like there were quite a few solar lurkers considering this route that got some good info out of it. It's tough to find a good forum for this topic on the net to get some unbiased, level headed, real world answers from.

I am nearing the completion of my research and the first big piece of advice I can give to people looking into it is SHOP AROUND. Solar prices can vary up to 40% (in my case) for near identical systems.

Ultimately the plan I am settling on looks to be a SunPower System.

- 18 x SunPower E20/327 Panels (the newer panels).
- 1 x SPR-5000m, 5kW Inverter.
- ProSolar TileTrac mounting equipment.

This system will produce roughly 9,000 kWh over the first year.

Another quick tip I've found the installation hardware is another area you can save money with a SunPower System. Using SunPower mounting hardware vs. other brands can easily lower the price a few thousand $. Personally I looked into ProSolar and am satisfied with them. SunPower makes solar panels and are the best in the business, I respect that and will pay a pretty penny for that. But they are not the best in the business and should not expect top dollar for mounting systems.

Currently our Monthly Bills average about 474 kWh's with zero Prius plug in added. I expect an additional 150kWh's added to the bill from the Prius and an additional 50 kWh's from my sister living with us full time and watching my 6 month old daughter (prior no one home during business hours). The SunPower software projected we would be fine with 16 panels but the up charge cost to add 2 more was worth it to me. It gives me some buffer for future expandability, the ability to be less frugal and possibly add a 2nd electric vehicle in a few years. All this with the intent to wipe my bill out as best I could.

I'm still strongly looking at the "pre paid lease option" The total cost (100% paid upfront) is 13,884$ for the system (ohh our roof is those like fake clay looking but concrete curved things). I'm struggling with the benefits of a purchase price over a lease price. I have come to the conclusion that the laws have been written so that’s it's super lucrative for the companies to own the panels that they can sweeten up the leases so well it's actually a better option. SunPowers contract is written so that at the end of 20 years there is 3 and a 1/2 options.

1) You renew a lease for 5 years (warranties’ period on the equipment) or they build and lease a new system to you.
2) You buy the system for fair market price as determined by a 3rd party appraiser.
3) They remove the System and repair the roof
4) If #3 is not cost effective they turn the system over to you.

Honestly I'm pretty comfortable with all those choices. Realistically I see them trying for #1 first, which if it works out I am fine with but if we can't come to an agreement on it I then see #4 being the result.


So, does anyone have any comments on my direction? Am I overlooking anything? Am I wrong in any of my assumptions? Do i have a chance at a better deal? Please throw at me what ever you got. My main hopes are comments on my expected usage, price for the system and the SunPower lease option expectations.

 

^^ Is the $13,884 a 20 year lease cost ?

Questions:
Am I right in thinking use below 9000 kwh a year is free money to the company ?
What happens if the company goes into BK ? I'll guess that upfront lease money you paid is lost, while the PV system does not belong to you.

 

yup 20 year.

The lease is through the Manufacturer SunPower. They are probably one of the stronger and least likely to go into BK but yeah there is still speculation in that. If they went BK I would assume there equipment is now mine lol.

 

Actually, I would assume that the equipment would be liquidated by the bankruptcy court as an asset of the defunct company, and used to help pay off creditors.

 

I'd recommend you shop around more!! I got a 7.955Kw DC system (37 panels) 2 Fronius inveters installed for $7400 total for the pre paid lease!

 

Mine wasn't cheap. Went with Sun Power, average 18,000 KWH a year. If electric KWH stays the same, 12 year payoff.


SunPower Monitoring System


The deal was to good to pass, upgraded 2008 Prius/45,000 for $5000 for a 2011. Great milage, love the car. No hurry, will wait on next upgrade of plug-in Prius.

Vern

 

why would you get a 5kw inverter on a system rated to about 6kw? why add two panels above your 5kw "clipping" point?
Those sunpower are great panels...premium cost though. Also, it seems you'll be generating much more power than you're using, with surplus belonging to the lease co? If you use six or 7k kwh...why generate 9k if you cannot realize the benefit?

 

I put solar on my roof 5 years ago, and am now getting hourly readings from a recently installed smart meter (SCE in California is my provider). Highlights: a) my big drain is the 4-7 air conditioning time; b) the PiP doesn't draw very much by comparison; c) putting a and b together means I'm not moving to Time of Day pricing until they force me; d) our ROI is probably about 10 years; e) we did it before there were leases so the rules have changed; f) a guy in the industry told me that Tiers 1 and 2 (we have 5, in ascending order of cost) are subsidized anyway, so don't cry in your beer if you can't eliminate Tiers 1 and 2; f) it was the only investment I had before the Crash that has continued to hold value and pay me. I hope that helps.

 

I'm estimating my usage closer to 8,100 kWh's. Again based on my current average outside the summer months being 475, plus an aditional 150 from the prius, plus an aditional 50 from having my Sister home with my newborn all day where as we used to have no one home. I'm pretty confident in the next 3-4 years we will own a 2nd electric vechicle. So my assumption is that extra buffer will be sponged up between decreasing panel efficiency, an extra electric vechile, family growth and being less frugal with our electricity. My first full 30 day bill with the Plug in will end on the 12th so that will really help me out. I don't expect to max out the panels during the first year or 2 but I expect to beyond that. The added expense to add 2 pannels looked cost effective to me long term.

Can you go a little deeper with the invert comment though? I know the sales guy commented on it but he said something about the "on point" of the inverter. And going with a larger one would cause the inverter to not come on at lower production levels or something. With this system in your opinion should there be a 6kW inverter?

Whats "Clipping Point"? I havent heard that term yet.

Thanks again for the input I really do value your advice and opinion.

 

What company and what pannels?

 

I just don't see that realalistically happening. I highly doubt the removal, repair of my roof, transportation and storage of the panels and equipment would be equal or greater then a liquidated price on the equipment.

 

My decision to lease was based on it being less than half of purchase and the fact that at the end of 10 years, I don't WANT to own the panels since the technology should be light years ahead of where it is now. I really doubt that they are going to remove the mounting system and conduit since they would need to pull up the roof tiles again and it wouldn't be cost effective for them. Since the mounts and wire probably will stay, I can evaluate the state of the art and decide what I want to install when the time comes.

Ron

 

I think the earlier commenter was only saying that if your leasing company goes bankrupt the panels will not belong to you, they will belong to a creditor. Harder to say what the creditor will do.

 

the leasing company in this case is citibank...they aint going anywhere....

 

Huh, so I gather the homeowner is taking out a 20 year loan with Citibank, and the PV is collateral ? Since the leasing "deal" costs less upfront than outright purchase, I surmise that the installer is collecting production credits. Then who 'owns' the PV ?

If the installer goes BK, is the contract to receive 20 years of electricity free still in force ? If the contract is with the installer who goes BK, watch out. Homeowners who think that in the event of BK the PV will just become theirs at liquidation values might be right, but a careful reading of the contract sure is in order.

 

What I'm asking is if the inverter is capable of 5kw, then it makes no sense to me to put up 6kw of panels. Personally I went with microinverters which allow each panel to operate independently. There are really intelligent solar intaller types in the "environmental issues" forum, I would def. post over there and see what they say. I would agree that it takes more power to reach the "on point" of a 6kw inverter, but then doesn't a 5kw inverter have to dicipate this extra power...which to me would mean heat?
I don't know what to say, every system I spec'd with a central inverter had inverter capacity that exceeded panel production. Microinverters made sense to me as they allowed all panels to operate a their peak efficiency even if one panel was shaded by the pine tree behind my house...all trees subsequently got cut!
I should also note that my panels really don't approach maximum wattage with the temps over 60 degrees..my 6.5kw system hasn't come really close to 6.5 since some cold sunny days in april.